Lack of End Game Content

[Critical-Limit]

This games end game is just 4 bosses. Why can’t we have just a tiny bit of Horizontal progression. Why can’t we make difficult Deep Dungeon for example drop relevant end game gear. Why does it only have to come from savage. Can’t we get difficult things elsewhere. Or maybe make a extremely tough Gold Saucer Game, that drop relevant Gloves or something. You can save on resources and make easier versions of the same thing for people not interested in End Game.

[snarkomatic]

This games end game is just 4 bosses. Why can’t we have just a tiny bit of Horizontal progression. Why can’t we make difficult Deep Dungeon for example drop relevant end game gear. Why does it only have to come from savage. Can’t we get difficult things elsewhere. Or maybe make a extremely tough Gold Saucer Game, that drop relevant Gloves or something. You can save on resources and make easier versions of the same thing for people not interested in End Game.

This is one thing I like a lot about ESO. (I am sort of balancing play between that and this right now; I keep putting XIV down, then returning to it, because I can't not apparently? Anyway.) The game itself has a lot of flaws, most noticeably when it comes to actual gameplay soundness, but having grown up on WoW it still amazes me how relevant all of the content in ESO feels. I'm up at max level, have done all the content through the latest expansion, but still find myself returning to old base-game dungeons to pick up gear sets I have not yet completed for testing on a new build. And, as you level, all gear drops at your level regardless of when the content was initially unlocked -- so I get the same Generic Set #9 every run, but it drops in relevant stats at level 10, level 30, level 50, and beyond. I was kinda disappointed to discover XIV's leveling roulette dumps you into old dungeons, but actually scales you down, and does not scale rewards up.

ESO also allows you to achievement-hunt at max level in harder versions of the dungeons you first did while leveling. Three different achievements per dungeon, plus a special gear set unique only to the hard-mode version.

I don't think these elements need a 1:1 exact-copy of themselves in XIV (or any game), but the general concept (horizontal prog. to keep old content relevant) is a solid one that has proven to keep most of the endgame players with whom I keep company very busy and very engaged with the game for years on end.

[Zabuza]

Back in ARR, there were also people saying 'no content!' or 'need more raids!' and the reaction to them, curiously, is the same one people give now:

-Ok, sorry you aren't happy, you can go play something else, I'm happy so I am going to keep playing

I remember strongly one poster who said 'It's ok, let them go, the game will cater to those who enjoy it and remain'

At the time, I thought it meant FF would become a very niche game, small population game, due to this focus on a certain group of players.

The opposite has happened - the game keeps growing and growing, where now people see FF14, ESO, and WoW as the big three MMOs on the market, and shadowbringers maybe just pushed FF to the top. Point being, this game has a steady growing population that enjoys the game, it's format, and how things are done.

Nevertheless expansions launch, and maybe every patch, there is someone who says 'I'm not happy'.

How do expect this ever growing population to respond considering they have been playing and enjoying it, while subs continue to grow?

'ok, guess it's not for you, I'm happy, I,m gonna keep playing, hope you find something you like'

I was scared about this attitude back in ARR, but now, six years later, it's proven to be a winning formula.

When people say to you 'FF is different from MMOs', what they are also saying to you 'and that's why I like it'

Thus, when people say things like 'gee, I wish this MMO was more like X', and they go ' that's not FF, you should find something'

They probably aren't trying to be insulting, they probably think they are being helpful and giving you good advice.

Unlike the WoW forums, where they will try to convince you that you are wrong, and maybe work overtime to convince you why you should stay.

People here are pretty mature, they don't sense the need that they need to convince you if you like something.

It's as if you are complaining at McDonalds, and they recommend you try Burger King, but you say 'No, I want McDonalds to change instead!'

How do you expect the people who enjoy McDonalds to react? They likely dont want it to change and would prefer you just find what you enjoy.

My recommendation to you: Classic WoW

Thanks for basically proving my point. While it may be said in a mature and not condescending manner, the message is basically that if I like having raids, I should just play WoW and not voice my opinion in trying to improve the raid scene in this game, because it isn't going to happen. Currently, I don't like WoW at all, and like FF but not the lack of challenging content. I've been unsubbed for probably over half the time between Heavensward to now because I blow through the challenging stuff(minus Ultimate I don't have a dedicated static) and have nothing left to stimulate me. People ask for stuff on this forum that they believe will make the game better all the time. Well, this is what I'm asking for — more difficult battle content than what we have gotten the past 4 years. This system of farming two snoozefest expert dungeons and two ex primals that I can do in my sleep for tomes and totems gets old. This is not to denote anyone else's skill level, everyone has their own pace. But for me, it is like Satasha, as one person stated. No change at all since Heavensward, because you guys eat it up. They give us reskinned primal fights for the raids and you guys cheer. Why would the dev team try to improve when they know they can dish out anything for challenging battle content and you'll be satisfied?

Why aren't raiders allowed to want something from this game too, without being told to 'go back to WoW'? I'm not trying to hamper your casual gameplay experience, but there is currently no MMO I feel I can go to at the moment where I can have raids that will keep me occupied. This Savage raid thing will only be a 2 month window before it fizzles out for me. The 24 man raid won't even last a week for me. FFXI was my MMO, but they destroyed it with Abyssea. Before that, I always had challenging content to do. Now, there is nowhere to go. The casual MMORPG has taken over the market, and left no room for those who enjoy challenges. We were usurped by the casual crowd, and we get shot down for wanting a shadow of the former challenging content we had.

[Eisenhower]

Why aren't raiders allowed to want something from this game too, without being told to 'go back to WoW'?

I've said it once and I'll say it again: because the complaint put out there is rarely "I would like more raids" - it's "There's nothing for me to do". For the person making the statement, both phrases point towards the same problem, but...

When someone states "I would like more X", be it hardcore raids, crafting, glamour, cake, etc. it's quite easy for other people to read it and think "Yeah, more of X would be nice."

When someone states "I have nothing to do", a reader may be compelled to reply "Try doing Y". But since the player in question has no interest of things outside of X, the conversation devolves into a back and forth of suggestions and rejections which ends up being more and more frustrating. It's pretty easy to see how that leads to "Go back to <game>".

[MonteCristo]

Thanks for basically proving my point. While it may be said in a mature and not condescending manner, the message is basically that if I like having raids, I should just play WoW and not voice my opinion in trying to improve the raid scene in this game, because it isn't going to happen. Currently, I don't like WoW at all, and like FF but not the lack of challenging content. I've been unsubbed for probably over half the time between Heavensward to now because I blow through the challenging stuff(minus Ultimate I don't have a dedicated static) and have nothing left to stimulate me. People ask for stuff on this forum that they believe will make the game better all the time. Well, this is what I'm asking for — more difficult battle content than what we have gotten the past 4 years. This system of farming two snoozefest expert dungeons and two ex primals that I can do in my sleep for tomes and totems gets old. This is not to denote anyone else's skill level, everyone has their own pace. But for me, it is like Satasha, as one person stated. No change at all since Heavensward, because you guys eat it up. They give us reskinned primal fights for the raids and you guys cheer. Why would the dev team try to improve when they know they can dish out anything for challenging battle content and you'll be satisfied?

Why aren't raiders allowed to want something from this game too, without being told to 'go back to WoW'? I'm not trying to hamper your casual gameplay experience, but there is currently no MMO I feel I can go to at the moment where I can have raids that will keep me occupied. This Savage raid thing will only be a 2 month window before it fizzles out for me. The 24 man raid won't even last a week for me. FFXI was my MMO, but they destroyed it with Abyssea. Before that, I always had challenging content to do. Now, there is nowhere to go. The casual MMORPG has taken over the market, and left no room for those who enjoy challenges. We were usurped by the casual crowd, and we get shot down for wanting a shadow of the former challenging content we had.

Its no use lol.....this thread literally confirmed my worst fears. The tribe has spoken Casual themepark content is king. No point in continuing to beat a dead horse $$$ talks...always has always will

[ElciaDeiLinus]

Its no use lol.....this thread literally confirmed my worst fears. The tribe has spoken Casual themepark content is king. No point in continuing to beat a dead horse $$$ talks...always has always will

Yeah, it's pretty awful that people want content that they enjoy and are capable of doing- how dare they.

[Vahlnir]

Yeah, it's pretty awful that people want content that they enjoy and are capable of doing- how dare they.

Casual players make up a pretty good sized chunk of the player base, so...obviously they are going to cater more to the audience that pays better. But yeah, hardcore players obviously do deserve content just for them, and they do get it...just not as frequently as they might prefer. And I understand the frustration. But it doesn't need to turn into an "us vs them" scenario like some people are trying to make it. (you know, like the person you quoted)

[ElciaDeiLinus]

Why aren't raiders allowed to want something from this game too, without being told to 'go back to WoW'? I'm not trying to hamper your casual gameplay experience, but there is currently no MMO I feel I can go to at the moment where I can have raids that will keep me occupied. This Savage raid thing will only be a 2 month window before it fizzles out for me. The 24 man raid won't even last a week for me. FFXI was my MMO, but they destroyed it with Abyssea. Before that, I always had challenging content to do. Now, there is nowhere to go. The casual MMORPG has taken over the market, and left no room for those who enjoy challenges. We were usurped by the casual crowd, and we get shot down for wanting a shadow of the former challenging content we had.

Well what would you want- them to put 10% of their development time into creating raids that only 1% or less of the community will do? I see a lot of raiders complaining that they aren't getting more development time, and then being mad that players who like other types of content aren't happily saying 'yes SE, please do less for us and more for them'.

The sheer amount of cockiness as you look down on players that don't have time or the skill or the organized group to do 1% challenge content is likely a big part of why, for the last decade plus that I've played MMOs at least- there's always this division.

But no, there is nothing wrong with hardcores and raiders wanting more content- there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. But, you also need to realize there is nothing wrong with casual players wanting more or at least the same level of content- and casual players aren't stupid, despite how raiders tend to treat them, they realize that development resources are limited and if something gets more attention, something else gets less attention. Most casuals have played enough MMOs by now to fully realize that.

So again- there's nothing wrong with you asking for more of something you like, but stop with the pity party when other players say they want resources to go to something they like more than raids.

[Zabuza]

Well what would you want- them to put 10% of their development time into creating raids that only 1% or less of the community will do? I see a lot of raiders complaining that they aren't getting more development time, and then being mad that players who like other types of content aren't happily saying 'yes SE, please do less for us and more for them'.

The sheer amount of cockiness as you look down on players that don't have time or the skill or the organized group to do 1% challenge content is likely a big part of why, for the last decade plus that I've played MMOs at least- there's always this division.

But no, there is nothing wrong with hardcores and raiders wanting more content- there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. But, you also need to realize there is nothing wrong with casual players wanting more or at least the same level of content- and casual players aren't stupid, despite how raiders tend to treat them, they realize that development resources are limited and if something gets more attention, something else gets less attention. Most casuals have played enough MMOs by now to fully realize that.

So again- there's nothing wrong with you asking for more of something you like, but stop with the pity party when other players say they want resources to go to something they like more than raids.

The same level of content? Casuals have far more content to do than raiders by a long shot.

SE has made plenty of money off of this game. There is no excuse for having the very same amount of challenging battle content as 4 years ago. Not all raiders look down on casual players. Me stating many things in this game are easy for me is not looking down on you at all. I'm sure there's something else in life that would be simple for you but difficult for me. Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses...I've already said twice that I'm not looking to cripple the casual player's gameplay experiences in any way. Yet a lot of the casual crowd, instead of simply not caring that raiders are asking for more content, are actively against raiders getting more content. Are you so opposed to us having fun?

[MonteCristo]

The same level of content? Casuals have far more content to do than raiders by a long shot.

SE has made plenty of money off of this game. There is no excuse for having the very same amount of challenging battle content as 4 years ago. Not all raiders look down on casual players. Me stating many things in this game are easy for me is not looking down on you at all. I'm sure there's something else in life that would be simple for you but difficult for me. Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses...I've already said twice that I'm not looking to cripple the casual player's gameplay experiences in any way. Yet a lot of the casual crowd, instead of simply not caring that raiders are asking for more content, are actively against raiders getting more content. Are you so opposed to us having fun?

By the gods...this man truly gets it /salute sir