Lack of End Game Content

[RyuSaarva]

I am also a strong supporter of not having 4 savage fights and just 2 extremes. In my opinion there should be more content at the level of (current/relevant) extremes. And I don't care who replies next with the "but I have a job and family and have no issues doing savage". I really don't care because for the majority this super hard to combine so for the most part this also doesn't fit the "end game content" category. I am not saying they shouldn't release savage content, just have more content at the level of extreme stuff. FFXIV currently is mostly brain-dead easy or super time consuming.


Did you actually read what you quoted? I don't consider them end-game content because they don't DROP relevant end-game gear and no, doing years old content is not current end-game. Do you really consider doing Stone Vigil through roulettes for the millionth time for Tomestones end-game content?


That is the thing I need to remind myself again and again. Why do I even need that if there is nothing there for me to do after I have it. This only speaks to the OP's problem though. The lack of end-game content.... that normal people can do and have the time for and is not so easy that you fall asleep doing it (current 4-man f.e.).

so primal or savage tokens don't count either then?

[HyoMinPark]

Which is why I was asking purely for battle class. I have yet to finish leveling my DoH/DoL so there's that, but outside of that there's really little to do if you don't like collecting stuff. Which is kinda sad, I think. But I think the reward system being the main culprit here. It's difficult to design content when you only have 4 relevant substats to give as a reward.

Idk if it’ll work for you, but I tend to just do things with friends. Seems to keep me entertained even when I’m on a battle job at level cap. But this game is intentionally designed for players to not have to log in every day to try to keep up. Works very well for me when school is in session, as sometimes I cannot log in until the weekends. As I said, if people are looking for something like that—where they have something new to do at level cap every day outside of farming—then they will get bored very quickly.

I don’t really see an issue with the substat system other than the way it scales as endgame progresses. Critical Hit tends to come out on top while the others fall behind. There only being 4 is not that huge of a deal for me. I don’t miss the days of Accuracy melds.

No, I was talking about how the lvl sync is handled. You have to go back to lvl 70 to do it, and lose all the skills you learned in the process. This is why I don't want to go into ultimate right now (And, to be true, I don't really care about it anyway. But that's still good content).

The item lvl could be at a minimum that I wouldn't really care, though.

I edited my post to clarify on both. I was posting right as my queue had popped. Either way, they’re both there to preserve the challenge of the content. With your main class (SAM), it’s not as if you’d be losing too many skills that would suddenly make your rotation unbearable to do at 70. They did a much better job with keeping 70 rotations not dull compared to 50 rotations (which are fairly butchered) or 60 rotations (which sometimes have arbitrary limits like BRD’s 20% Repertoire lock instead of the normal 40%).

The only skills I would actively miss on DNC would be Saber Dance and Flourish. But my rotation is more or less the same at 80 compared to 70. Same with BRD—I’d lose Apex Arrow and the Army’s Muse trait. Which, the former isn’t exactly a game-breaking skill and the latter isn’t a game-breaking trait. The level sync doesn’t bother me.

As for item level, it is preserved at i345 and i375 for UCoB and UwU specifically. The minimum is 5 item levels below that, so it’s more or less minimum item level.

[Forever_Learning]

This thread has evolved from "there isn't enough end-game content, please give me more" to "What things can we remove from others that will improve the situation for ME?"

Like this statement:

Everything stays the same, but lvl 80 players would get the option to do a dungeon scaled to lvl 80 and/or a separate roulette for it.

Just speaking from an efficiency point of view: for most of the MMORPGs I play you play their huge list of instanced content only once, and after that you're doing the same current endgame instances over and over, while every other instance outside of the endgame ones is instantly obsolete except to farm mounts/glamors/achievement titles etc.

For me that's almost an insulting level of inefficiency.

Yes, which is why they put in place the various roulettes to ensure that content continues to be used. You are arguing for the reverse of the current system: Sync up, rather than sync down.

That only benefits people at level 80, and no one below level 80.

Gradually adding skills as you level up is done on purpose to ensure people aren't overwhelemed, and so they have something to look forward to.

The entire levelling process is pretty much gutted if you get everything you've have at level 80 when you do Satasha, similar to someone getting a jump potion.

They'll be overwhelmed and it wont help them learn how to play better.

The current system ensures more experienced players can help out newer players, or people on alts, while still doing content from previous expansions.

Myself and two sprouts did Stone Vigil yesterday because my DRG is actually at that level, and when I qued, I was happy a more experienced tank was brought in as well.

The current system is designed to ensure people at all levels are doing content together from across the game's history rather than than the sliver of dungeons considered max level.

The result is that you actually end up experiencing a larger array of content, rather than just doing something once on the way to max level, while newer and veteran players are brought together regardless of their item level.

In Short, the current system is good for people at all levels, while your system would be good strictly for people at level 80 who dislike being synced down.

Savage is a good time sink if you have a static (I can't stand pug honestly), but outside of that, I don't really see whatever there is to do for battle classes so could you elaborate about what kind of end game opportunities you're thinking?

Outside of the obvious mount/minion farm, of course.

There's ultimate for those who didn't do it of course, but having to go through this horrible lvl sync is a no go for me.

I seriously feel for the developers.

The major problem with end-game contenat is that it becomes obsolete the minute it's no longer end-game. A level 80 dungeon stops being end-game the minute the level cap is raised.

As a result, many of the challenging experiences, stop being challenging, so obtaining related rewards is less impressive because the content is easy to complete.

Meanwhile, the people who achieved those things when it was challenging, feel their rewards are diminished as new people can now obtain the new things without any of the effort they did.

It's the exact problem that was discussed in the previous quote.

Thus, the brilliant solution to always keep Ultimate challenging, and make the rewards cosmetic, so they always remain relevant.

Dear People asking for more end-game content: this is the response to your request.

The sync is put in place to ensure it is a) always challenging, and b) the rewards will maintain their prestige.

The alternative would be making it like all other content that wouldn't even be worthy of discussion in this thread because the challenge would be removed and the associated prestige gone.

From a developer stand-point, would you rather make something like a deep dungeon, that can be used by people across levels, and will remain relevant after the expansion OR

2-3 additional savage raid bosses that will be considered outdated and irrelevant before the expansion is even over?

Ultimate also represents a solution to people eating content faster than it can be created. Because it remains challenging and prestigous, it stands as something that people can always do for a challenge.

So, let's be honest here. Many people hide behind the defense that they want more challenging content, but in truth, they want gear treadmills. They want to switch from grinding levels to grinding item levels.

The OP of this thread has already changed from complaints about end-game to complaints about the tome system, for example.

The game has plenty of challenging content, and the game has plenty of content, period.

The request for additional content that is strictly level 80, which only benefits level 80 players, only for the duration of the expansion, is a sliver of content so small that it isn't worth the investment.

FF14 should continue as it's done: create content for everyone that can be done, and remain challenging, regardless of the expansion.

The crux of the complaint is lack of content that directly increases your item level at level 80 , which I will applaud forever and view as a strength of this game.

If the gear you obtained at level 80 was your final gear, many of the people asking for more savage bosses wouldn't even bother doing savage in the first place.

[linay]

I specifically talked about content being scaled up for lvl 80 players, and yet here you are asking a question which clearly shows you didn't even read my comment.

Because what you've said earlier doesn't answer my question. You can scale content to individual players, like in WoW, and have them run the same content at the same time.

Everything stays the same, but lvl 80 players would get the option to do a dungeon scaled to lvl 80 and/or a separate roulette for it.

Ok, so it's the second option of scaling where you're segregating the player base. Like I said, I'm not sure if that would fit with how FFXIV works.

Just speaking from an efficiency point of view: for most of the MMORPGs I play you play their huge list of instanced content only once, and after that you're doing the same current endgame instances over and over, while every other instance outside of the endgame ones is instantly obsolete except to farm mounts/glamors/achievement titles etc.

For me that's almost an insulting level of inefficiency.

In my point of view, roulettes (and sometimes relic) are reason enough to do those older contents.

And as for "insulting level of inefficiency" … how about, get over yourself? LOL. Sorry, I don't know how else to take that statement.

[MonteCristo]

..going back and forth isnt solving jack...they fix eureka and innovate endgame great..if not its simple stay unsubbed and move on...much easier to just change the channel rather than going to war against the cult in these forum....Long live casual cult fantasy 14 /cheers

[Temjiu]

That only benefits people at level 80, and no one below level 80.

+1. Not only that, but it also horribly alters the state and feeling of progression prior to 80. ESO has a system like that, and I hate it. Gear progression is a constant state of avoiding depreciation, instead of looking forward to gear upgrades. in a system where they scale up to max, all your stats and gear at lower levels is irrelevant unless they literally make you lose stats as you level out of the gear. Thus you can easily have LESS stats as you level up instead of more.

It's a horrid backwards system that I am VERY glad isn't in FFXIV. Please keep the scale-down system, it's one of the attractions to this game. The only thing I would love to see with the scale down system is a change to allow all unlocked skills accessible, even if you have to scale the potency instead. It does get irritating to jump into a scaled dungeon and suddenly lose all those skills you worked so hard to unlock, and being stuck with 1,2,1,2 for the remainder of the run.

..going back and forth isnt solving jack...they fix eureka and innovate endgame great..if not its simple stay unsubbed and move on...much easier to just change the channel rather than going to war against the cult in these forum....Long live casual cult fantasy 14 /cheers

I retracted my initial comment, it was quippy and undeserved. I agree, the conversation has gotten of topic. You're last cut at people who like "non-end game content" was unneeded though, it only puts you in the position of an elitist, something that the thread has far too much of already.

[Zabuza]

..going back and forth isnt solving jack...they fix eureka and innovate endgame great..if not its simple stay unsubbed and move on...much easier to just change the channel rather than going to war against the cult in these forum....Long live casual cult fantasy 14 /cheers

Yeah, I heard the rumors of how this game has a unique group of people that defends this game no matter what. Thing is, I have always loved the Final Fantasy franchise. That is why I suggest something which I feel would improve the game. Good luck getting the community here to admit the game has a single fault though. To them, it's perfect and anyone who points out what they perceive as a shortcoming with the game, the fault is clearly with them and not the game design, because this game is unable to make a mistake anywhere. The game is immaculate and how dare you imply it might be lacking somewhere.

[Mitracia]

145 pages. It is safe to say that the issue is quite real.

Let us be honest, 15$ a month will never justify the lack of and mundane end-game content that we have just because the story is somewhat good. I feel bad for the defenders.

[ForteNightshade]

I did all the MUCH harder endgame content way before classes were homogenized that originally dropped for this game up until coils... do me a favor and please dont insult my intelligence with empty abc123 search logic...id almost go out of my way to to prove how frivolous your point is and make example out of you. If you dont have a legacy tattoo miss me with the bs please.....

Oh please, "make an example out of me" with your super, special, awesome abilities! I am certain to be amazed and astonished at how phenomenal you truly are!

Sarcasm aside. Nothing 1.0 offered approached the difficulty of Gordias or Midas Savage nor either of the current Ultimates. And unlike you, I've actually partaken in the endgame.

[Hawklaser]

The crux of the complaint is lack of content that directly increases your item level at level 80 , which I will applaud forever and view as a strength of this game.

If the gear you obtained at level 80 was your final gear, many of the people asking for more savage bosses wouldn't even bother doing savage in the first place.

The crux is a lack of content for level cap period. New higher ilvl gear is not really needed.

The problem of everything not current endgame always being outdated is thanks to Vertical progression systems that came into favor once WoW started doing expansions. Games with more Horizontal progression ended up with much more robust and varied endgame. There is a reason WoW's epic weapon Windfury became a Joke Meme while FFXI's RME gear stayed long term goals for any one serious about a class.

Why were relics and their related content looked forward to in XIV? Because Square had already proven in XI that they did respect a player's time investment with how they handled RME in XI. Its why in 2.0 I was pushing to get the relic at the time despite how much of a pain Titan Hard was, because I trusted that SE would handle things better than the perpetual obsolescence that normally accompany Vertical Progression MMOs. So each time they revisit relics, I bet people are hoping they get it right this time instead of just another rung on the ladder.

Most looking for more endgame content are wanting more variety and/or challenge. You could potentially make every single piece of gear in an MMO cosmetic, and if the gameplay and content was solid across the whole game it could preform well. Perpetual character progress isn't needed to make a good game. Perpetual player skill progress can be a different story.