Lack of End Game Content

[AniKai]

I never played Secret World, so I can't comment on how good this system would be. Either way, at least you're down for suggesting improvements. I like that. Most of what has been going on in this thread is people arguing over what endgame is or asking if someone has done absolutely everything in this game. Completely useless. Devs will get nothing from that, if they are reading this.

TSW is all about puzzles and mysteries, combat exists mainly just to cater to people who like to shoot zombies, etc. (or if the story involves mopping up a bad guy).

[Hawklaser]

Mmm, there's that... But what if mixing real mystery solving á la Secret World? Stuff that's not solvable by just clicking on things...

Sorry, as someone that did play a little of the Secret World, no thanks. FFXI was bad enough with being cryptic with its quests, Secret World kinda took that to eleven. Never a fan of a game that requires a guide or hours of research/homework to progress.

If they could do it in a way that managed to not essentially need a guide or outside resources, I might say yes. The mystery ones tend to go a bit off the deep end where if you missed some random bit of lore dialogue from an NPC somewhere, it can become unsolvable. Say the Satasha Prisoners, or some NPC that is only around during certain Fate/Quest Chains for example. Or if you haven't gotten the Tonberry lore from the Sch job quests as another example.

[JohnSpawnVFX]

Sorry, as someone that did play a little of the Secret World, no thanks. FFXI was bad enough with being cryptic with its quests, Secret World kinda took that to eleven. Never a fan of a game that requires a guide or hours of research/homework to progress.

If they could do it in a way that managed to not essentially need a guide or outside resources, I might say yes. The mystery ones tend to go a bit off the deep end where if you missed some random bit of lore dialogue from an NPC somewhere, it can become unsolvable. Say the Satasha Prisoners, or some NPC that is only around during certain Fate/Quest Chains for example. Or if you haven't gotten the Tonberry lore from the Sch job quests as another example.

The main problem would actually be:

- Once solved, all the novelty from the puzzles would be gone unless they make solution random, which is annoying

- You'd switch from "read/watch a guide on the dungeon" (which I'm fine with btw. not an attack on people getting prepared and not wasting others' time) to "read/watch a video about the puzzle' solution"

[SaberMaxwell]

I lashed out because quite a few were actively trying to shut down my opinions and block my suggestions from reaching devs by saying 'no, everything is fine nothing new needs to be added even endgame is completely perfect.' Yes, I have tried WoW for about a year and left. Thank you bringing out my post from 4 years ago. I didn't even remember it existed. Kinda sad to think back on it now and realize no effort has been put in from the dev team to make endgame any better. You may be right that perhaps I should quit. But this game won't retain any kind of sizable endgame base with this formula. It really is missing out. That concerned me because FF has been my favorite franchise since I was a kid and I wanted them to succeed. I wanted them to draw in casuals and endgame players alike. It simply cannot keep endgame players like this, though. It is sad to think about. Maybe not for casuals, but for me, it is. But I guess what you and others are trying to say is you guys don't really want to coexist with raiders at all. You are afraid that we will somehow tarnish your jewel by making suggestions to try to better this game.

Sorry, I shouldn't be harsh in my tone with you since you haven't been towards me. Honestly, if there was an MMO out there that I have enjoyed recently, I'd definitely go there in a second.

It's hard to swallow something like "this endgame is unsustainable" when...it is actually very sustainable. It's sustained for almost 6 years now. In fact the last time endgame was in trouble was when Savage was overturned and world first raiders took longer than a week to kill it.

I stand by my statement that this endgame works. I think it works much better now that Ultimate was conceived. I think the time between Ultimate and Savage is good, it gives even non-week-1 killers ample time to get BiS to tackle it.

Savage could be better. I don't think that means (nor am I saying that's your statement) it's in a bad place. I say this as someone who's killed both Ultimates several times, and killed E4S week 1, before there's any insinuation that I'm a casual stating this.

[Millybonk]

It's hard to swallow something like "this endgame is unsustainable" when...it is actually very sustainable. It's sustained for almost 6 years now. In fact the last time endgame was in trouble was when Savage was overturned and world first raiders took longer than a week to kill it.

I stand by my statement that this endgame works. I think it works much better now that Ultimate was conceived. I think the time between Ultimate and Savage is good, it gives even non-week-1 killers ample time to get BiS to tackle it.

Savage could be better. I don't think that means (nor am I saying that's your statement) it's in a bad place. I say this as someone who's killed both Ultimates several times, and killed E4S week 1, before there's any insinuation that I'm a casual stating this.

What do you mean by sustainable:

• Do you refer to the always same iteration of the release cycle, and the fact that game is still running while using said release cycle?
• Do you refer to that only a fraction of people even bother with endgame activities and its sustainable this way, as even if all of them left the game would still be running?

This endgame doesn't really "work" for anyone seeking challenging content, or challenging content outside of Ex/savage:

• 3 lvl 80 dungeons, 3 trials up to lvl 80, Ex trials, 1 raid, Savage raid - that's it until the next major release; and if you're like me who rather has challenging group, but not raid content you can leave the minute you've done all 3 dungeons, as there is just nothing left
• There are only so many repetitions you're doing of the current endgame content until you either don't play your lvl 80 anymore and focus on other activities, or you unsub until the next major patch

Theme-park MMORPGs are like a buffet, as you should have food for your different customer groups/personas, but currently the "wants challenging content" group only has a tiny selection of food it can eat - and if I were the host of said buffet I'd make sure that even that particular group has enough variety to chose from.

[Zabuza]

It's hard to swallow something like "this endgame is unsustainable" when...it is actually very sustainable. It's sustained for almost 6 years now. In fact the last time endgame was in trouble was when Savage was overturned and world first raiders took longer than a week to kill it.

I stand by my statement that this endgame works. I think it works much better now that Ultimate was conceived. I think the time between Ultimate and Savage is good, it gives even non-week-1 killers ample time to get BiS to tackle it.

Savage could be better. I don't think that means (nor am I saying that's your statement) it's in a bad place. I say this as someone who's killed both Ultimates several times, and killed E4S week 1, before there's any insinuation that I'm a casual stating this.

This endgame works? Dude, the people that stay subbed are the casuals because this game is made for them, with raiders as an afterthought. I guarantee you that there are a ton of raiders just like me, who unsub from this game after they clear the Savage tiers. This game sustains because the casual players sustain it. They could also be receiving additional funds from raiders, but they don't even want to try to make them happy. Casuals don't want us to be happy either. They seem to think it is impossible to have a game that can be fun for casuals and raiders alike. And they get rabid at anyone who dares level a criticism at this game. Always implying that this game has no faults whatsoever, and that any criticism directed at this game must be a fault of the person and not the design. Because clearly there have not been MMOs in the past that had a diverse range of endgame activities compared to this. Ultimate, while a nice challenge, is another trial fight like all the Savages are. Where is the diversity regarding endgame?

[Nariel]

This endgame works? Dude, the people that stay subbed are the casuals because this game is made for them, with raiders as an afterthought. I guarantee you that there are a ton of raiders just like me, who unsub from this game after they clear the Savage tiers. This game sustains because the casual players sustain it. They could also be receiving additional funds from raiders, but they don't even want to try to make them happy. Casuals don't want us to be happy either. They seem to think it is impossible to have a game that can be fun for casuals and raiders alike. And they get rabid at anyone who dares level a criticism at this game.

The clear ratio for savage content say otherwise. Its a problem of limited ressources that need to go where it matter the most. You can't ask for 5 percentil interest to get twice more budget allowed to be taken from content that is actualy working far better.

[Zabuza]

The clear ratio for savage content say otherwise.

I wonder how many endgame raiders they have driven off with the same stale formula of endgame over the last 6 years? Perhaps that also factors into this ratio? Probably also the general attitude of this community towards them as well. It's pretty clear you want to keep me and other raiders in a corner and want us to just be quiet and suffer or unsub while you get to enjoy your casual paradise. The general adversarial tone of this community towards raiders who dare to ask for more raiding content is pretty apparent.

[Nariel]

I wonder how many endgame raiders they have driven off with the same stale formula of endgame over the last 6 years? Perhaps that also factors into this ratio? Probably also the general attitude of this community towards them as well. It's pretty clear you want to keep me and other raiders in a corner and want us to just be quiet and suffer or unsub while you get to enjoy your casual paradise.

Maybe you are right, maybe its a casual paradise or whatever. But it work, number show that it work so why the hell do you want them to repair a formula that isn't broken. Maybe thats what he game in meant to be so maybe you should start considering to deal with it.

[Vivi_Bushido]

I think the challenge logs should have their own type of wonderous trails book. Every time you complete a challenge log you get a stamp. Or something. There basically just needs to be more reoccurring weekly achievements like WT but with more variety. Something a bit more unique. Like instead of a WT that's like do this trial again. Which can be done unsync, these challenges could be more like, gain at least 10levels on a job this week. Craft 100 items not in quick synth. Defeat 50 A ranks. Do 10 Leveling Roulettes. It can honestly be anything, but what I mean is it's like the WT but in the forum of like the challenge log and it changes each week where as the challenge logs always stay consistent. And completing these give rewards that aren't just exp or 1000gil. They have their own type of currency and it can buy things akin to stuff you'd find at the gold saucer.

Im sure someone else can improve off this idea.