Lack of End Game Content

[Misutoraru]

I did that because casuals started attacking me with a stance of 'how dare I try to change anything in this game.' So I replied with they basically changed the entire genre, and this game, which are both true. This game used to be higher in difficulty. If you want to stop taking my requests seriously just because I brought up a counterpoint to those who tried to shut me down, then be my guest.

You dont have to drag yourself to their level

SE is not charity, they make money and want to make more, and Yoshida have to follow.
I do agree it is the community that kill hard content (just look at A3S/A4S), but as I mention SE is not some indie company, they need money to produce more content, they need money to run the game and they want more profit out of it, and the best way is to cater the largest audience

There are MMO purely focus on end game high tier dungeon and raiding, in this case it is just not FFXIV unfortunately

[LadyKairi]

snip

To be fair, just because something has always been one way, doesn’t mean it doesn’t have things it could do to be better. I mean, this game used to be harder than it used to be, but it changed to be easier to bring in more people. Change can be good. People don’t have to like it, but change is a healthy part of life. Am I happy the game changed to be as easy as it is now? Not really, but I’ve accepted it. Sure the formula works right now, but how long is it going to last before more people get bored? I feel like it’s gonna hit a peak point, but then a decline will start. When that’ll be, I don’t know.

We aren’t asking for xiv to be wow. WoW is a failing game on the decline. However, games have strengths and weaknesses, and it’s not a bad thing to compare games. For instance, I don’t like a lot about WoW, but one thing I do like about it is how unique their quests can be. Carrying wounded soldiers to healers to save them, using flame throwers to burn spider webs are just a couple examples. I would love more interactive quests like that here. Looks like they’re working on it though, since we’ve been able to play as certain npcs in the MSQ. I hate WoW just as much as the next guy/gal, but I’m not so blind as to ignore the fact that it has a couple great qualities that could be beneficial to xiv. Same for other games, it’s not just WoW. It’s just WoW was “the king” for so long and is so well known, I feel like it’s only natural that’s the game people tend to use as an example. I feel like a lot of people here need to put their hatred of WoW aside and think rationally, rather than immediately go on the attack as soon as someone brings up WoW. It doesn’t contribute to a discussion at all.

I’m sorry, but you don’t have to be a casual in order to make purchases to support the game. That is the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. I’m a raider, and yet I’ve made plenty of purchases from the SE store, the mogstation, etc. I have the Ultima statue, I’ve purchased countless outfits, dyes, mounts, fantasias, and I would purchase others if I didn’t have rl things to save for right now. And you don’t have to be a casual to enjoy fluff content like housing, fcs and such. I do a lot with and for my FC. They’re my online family 100%. I have a house I’ve decorated with care, I enjoy glamour, etc. I do not recall anyone saying they don’t enjoy any of the fluff, however we’ve said true endgame content is the primary content of interest to us and could stand to be built on a bit.

Again endgame is max level content, not anything you do after hitting max level. Just because people do them after reaching 80 doesn’t make them endgame content. It’s still filler content pre or post 80.

I know this post isn’t aimed at myself, but I take plenty of time away from the game. Especially after my static exhausts a raid tier, I prioritize rl. I’ve even tried to play other games, but XIV always brings me back. It has my friends here that have done more for me than most would in other FCs. I don’t exaggerate when I say they’re my online family. I’m an officer, so I’m supposed to be there to make sure issues are handled and I tend to people who need help. I don’t mind helping people clear content and doing filler or fluff content with them, however it would be nice to Have something for myself to enjoy to break up the monotony of running the same dated content over and over after exhausting raids.

I know that this is a thread for endgame content and not just the high end stuff. There could stand to be more level 80 content in general, especially instances. I just personally wish there was more challenging stuff to do to keep myself stimulated. I wish for content to have more longevity rather than “it’s so easy you blow through it in an hour and then only left to grind it each week for x”. The devs work really hard, and I just feel like things could stand to be made enjoyable for longer than the extreme short term. Will the general content ever be like this? Probably not, but I wish the high end could be at least. How? I dunno. I would like at least one extra boss, but otherwise I dunno. I plan on trying ultimate again, but I’ve already come to terms that I’m not skilled enough to clear, and I’m not gonna pretend that I am. In regards to that piece of content, I’m content living vicariously through the streamers who can. Savage is my sweet spot.

I do gotta say, though, I’m super excited that crafters get their endgame content soon. It shall be interesting to see how they enjoy the Ishgard stuff once it comes out.

[Misutoraru]

Relic questlines are long, grindy and takes effort and skill (sometimes) to complete. And relic weapons and gear tend to be the second or thirdbest gear you can get in the game. So my advice would be to quit the game and come back when the relic questlines are in the game. People suspect it might come during 5.1 or 5.2.

FFXIV is not WoW. Nor will it ever be like WoW. FFXIV does not demand you login everyday to do grinds unless you have a personal goal for it. (Beast tribes daily grind to get glamour, mounts or story, and emotes)
Now also how to improve endgame content, well if you look at numbers and how many people do raids. You might be surprised to see most people only run normal 8 man once or twice and then they are off to do other things. This is the core playerbase. From now on I w lifeblood of this game. Not the hardcore raiders. The core is what buy items in the cashshops, buys special editions, merch, Alpha plushie (serious I pay an arm and a leg for one!) etc. And how do you keep the core happy? By giving them options. Such as Golden saucer and its massive amounts of content, Hildy questline, glamour contests, Housing, treasure maps, mount hunting, hunts, card collection, chocobo breeding, mahjong, level other jobs, play music in the major cities, roleplaying, achivment hunting (Some achivments are very hard and time consuming to get but you do tend to get nifty items), FC events, crafting, Side quests. I mgiht have missed some. But these thing I posted here is the cores endgame content.

From my understanding you two want more raidlike endgame content? Of course correct me if I am wrong there. But this is not the game for such things. You get a raid every 3-3.5 months And that is it. And more expert dungeons thrown in of course, and new items. You could try PvP and start a ranked group. PvP has rewards that can only be gotten as a pvper such as a robotic flying horse mount! (I have one of them it is amazing!)

Well I guess they have the right to demand more content catering to their taste, even if the dev is clearly targeting the more causal audience. That’s totally fine to have an opinion, and that’s what I thought originally, until they drag other players in, claiming lack of hardcore content is the result of the causal community. It is like going to Disney land and complain the roller coasters are too family friendly and this is the result of family going to theme park. I knew I have to stop taking those claim seriously

[ApolloGenX]

I think end game is horrible... mainly because their quest formula is the worst. Grinding of instances is all this game has.... not a single quest with the depth of even a moderate to long Everquest questline.

Maybe if they had decent quests, those would be great to do instead of spamming instances.... but the oversimplified formula won't support it.

Even the "quests" for the MSQ are terrible... but you do them to hear more story.

[The-Real-Link]

Played WoW for 8+ years. Played FF since launch. Would I love more bosses? Sure. But what is here is challenging enough for my group of friends in our static and I to have a blast with. Yes, does WoW provide more ways to work on endgame day after day? Sure. But with BFA, how much of that honestly feels compelling, rewarding, and fun? Just more M+ and AP grinds just to stay current with the raid and then the whole randomness of M+ and that community.

FF's shouldn't be seen as a detriment because you can *finish* it and actually play other games, relax, or wait for Ultimate. There's a reason I'm playing FF full time now despite WoW having more content.

[Nemmar]

I watched the FFXIVARR documentary last night and the director/producer said he doesn't want to create a game where you feel pressured to log in every day. He is ok with you just coming back to the game every time there is a patch/expansion with stuff you want, play through it and go chill, cause people have lives and he doesn't want the game to get in the way of that.

And thank god for that. Last thing i'd want is that cancerous AP system that WoW has. I hate it with a passion. I literally feel like i'm in a hamster wheel. It is so slow and unrewarding and it made me burn out on Legion. No to AP systems. Worst system ever.

If you make an end-game system, please make something like SWTOR's crates of goodies. It's a complementary gear acquisition method + cosmetics.

[Millybonk]

I watched the FFXIVARR documentary last night and the director/producer said he doesn't want to create a game where you feel pressured to log in every day. He is ok with you just coming back to the game every time there is a patch/expansion with stuff you want, play through it and go chill, cause people have lives and he doesn't want the game to get in the way of that.

And thank god for that. Last thing i'd want is that cancerous AP system that WoW has. I hate it with a passion. I literally feel like i'm in a hamster wheel. It is so slow and unrewarding and it made me burn out on Legion. No to AP systems. Worst system ever.

If you make an end-game system, please make something like SWTOR's crates of goodies. It's a complementary gear acquisition method + cosmetics.

You're mixing different things into one amalgam:

• With the new tomestone there's yet again a slight pressure to at least do 5 expert roulettes to cap them for the week if you care do keep up with the current equipment paths
• FF14 is a sub game: if you've done the MSQ and unlocked all dungeons there's not really much more in terms of endgame except doing those 3 endgame dungeons or Ex/Savage modes of raids you've already seen, or the usual of crafting/leveling/misc. activities, though none of them endgame in terms of DoM/DoW activites - which means at point X you're still paying for a sub with no new content until the next major patch, but you can only cancel your sub at point Y/or have to wait until your time from a game time card runs out

It's an actual sad design paradigm among MMORPGs in which new content is encapsulated and detached from all previous content, and once you're done with the newest part you have to wait for the next one to release, as there's just nothing new to do in the current part but repetitions of content you've already done and additionally there's close to 0 incentive for a max level character to go back to previous zones or doing previous content as there are no usable rewards in terms of equip/crafting mats.

FF14 has a massive list of dungeons/trials/raids, but my lvl 80 WHM has no reason to visit them but to see them once or for glamors/mounts, as they reward nothing I could actually use and my Expert roulette only contains the latest 3 dungeons.

Where's a lvl 80 hard-mode Aurum Vale with difficult pulls and e.g. constant poison damage + hard-hitting mobs as a healing challenge?

I really don't get it: what's the point of developing such a massive list of instanced content when it's only used during leveling + as a potential draw during a roulette?

[linay]

I really don't get it: what's the point of developing such a massive list of instanced content when it's only used during leveling + as a potential draw during a roulette?

The point is the story. Each instanced content is part of the story that you go through once. Repeating it is just gameplay reason to help others go through it as well or for gear/glamour/mount/achievement or maybe challenge in the case of Ultimate (and even Savage for some people).

[Iscah]

FF14 has a massive list of dungeons/trials/raids, but my lvl 80 WHM has no reason to visit them but to see them once or for glamors/mounts, as they reward nothing I could actually use and my Expert roulette only contains the latest 3 dungeons.

I really don't get it: what's the point of developing such a massive list of instanced content when it's only used during leveling + as a potential draw during a roulette?

With so many classes, for someone leveling all of them then they'll be seeing a lot of those dungeons.

You can also earn some amount of endgame tomes from leveling roulette (and most other roulettes) if you do it at Lv80 - a much more varied way of reaching your weekly tome cap instead of just running the three expert dungeons. You can do raids, trials, leveling and alliances to work your way towards that quota - or you can just let it slip for this week. It's only a treadmill after all: do content to get gear to do content....

Ultimately though, it's an RPG, made by a company whose primary focus is single-player RPGs, and with a lot of that mindset behind it. In a single-player RPG you often don't even redo dungeons, unless you need to go back for a later objective or grinding - you just work your way through it once, and move on to the next part of the story.

[Millybonk]

With so many classes, for someone leveling all of them then they'll be seeing a lot of those dungeons.

You can also earn some amount of endgame tomes from leveling roulette (and most other roulettes) if you do it at Lv80 - a much more varied way of reaching your weekly tome cap instead of just running the three expert dungeons. You can do raids, trials, leveling and alliances to work your way towards that quota - or you can just let it slip for this week. It's only a treadmill after all: do content to get gear to do content....

Ultimately though, it's an RPG, made by a company whose primary focus is single-player RPGs, and with a lot of that mindset behind it. In a single-player RPG you often don't even redo dungeons, unless you need to go back for a later objective or grinding - you just work your way through it once, and move on to the next part of the story.

Using such a non-precise wording isn't helping your argument:

• Using leveling roulette on a lvl 80 is a waste if you level any other job
• Any other roulette is only useful as long as you need Poetics/Goetia: if you've got everything you want with those currencies doing those roulettes on lvl 80 is pointless, hence every instance in those roulettes doesn't offer you anything anymore and are thus obsolete
• After that it only comes down to which roulettes you want to do to cap Phantasmagoria - and without the tomestone slapped on top of the roulettes no one would be doing any of the instances in the pool except the later ShB ones, as they reward them on their own, which was my point to begin with -> instances become obsolete the moment they don't reward you with items you can use at max level; additionally you'd be opting for the path of least resistance to cap them, which would be 5x Experte roulette in most cases, so only 3 dungeons
• Almost forgot: once you're capped for the week there is actually nothing to do anymore for 2 days. Yes you could still do content which rewards Phantasmagoria, but why bother investing time when you can't collect additional tomestones?

As for the point about RPG:

• If the scope of FF14 is indeed on the single-player aspect it's scary how much resources are wasted into developing instanced party content, which gets deprecated and never visited again once a new expansion/new instances/new tomestone are here
• Depending on the flavor of the RPG you go back to farm specific areas/bosses for drops e.g. Diablo 2 or re-visit areas you were too weak to do earlier e.g. Gothic I/II
• Unlike FF14 a RPG is a one-time purchase, can be modded if it's popular enough and has a replay-value. The main replay-value of FF14 is watching the MSQ again in your room or replay selected instances you like due to atmosphere/soundtrack/boss mechanics