Lack of End Game Content

[Forever_Learning]

I don't get it. Why are you so against end game that you would leave a game that had it even if you had your own stuff to do in that game?

Because end-game content tends to be infinite gear treadmills and the content leading it to tends to made into some hurdle in order to reach it.

I enjoyed raiding quite a bit before it became the same thing four times. I LOVE that savage and ultimate only have one level, even if I've never done Ultimate, because I know I need to beat it once.

I'm not against certain forms of end-game content being made, but it usually doesn't fit the definition of end-game as made in this thread.

For example, I like it when they add side content that everyone can do, can have its own endgame, but isn't related to item level.

For example, they release Blue Mage in 4.5. Clearly not level 80 end-game content, but it was content, had its own challenge, and even its own endgame.

I'm looking forward to another deep dungeon, which like previous ones, will probably start at some level lower than 80, but the soloing it to the end will be the challenge.

Honestly, when I wake up, I just look at my library of games and try to go where my heart wants to go.

The me from 18 years ago who didn't have so much work/responsibilities would have been all over Ultimate. It's a bit more difficult now. My main desire was for a different type of content. However, when Savages are burned through in two weeks, it also decreases the longevity of the content that is there and makes the lack of diverse content more apparent. I definitely think they can do better on the fights they do have. The same tome formula, the same square/circular arenas, surely they can do better? There are plenty of raid fights in other MMOs they can look at to draw ideas from.

Here is where you need to be honest with yourself: is the problem the game or is the problem where you are in life?

For example, I currently dislike raiding because it would involve following a weekly schedule with a set group of people.

Previously, in other years, that would have been very easy for me to do, but now, I honestly wonder if that is something I can or even want to do.

But I then have to ask myself- do I have the right to request raids change in format, due to the fact I have gotten older? Or maybe it's just time to move on and let a younger generation experience what raiding is all about.

I can't exactly expect the raid or the game to adjust to the fact I have gotten older.

The game has its own audience, an audience able and willing to do it, so the game will continue to cater to them.

As you get older, the hobbies and things you do all the time keep changing. They change, because you also change as a person, so there becomes a need to find something new that better fits your current lifestyle. Sometimes that means accepting you have to let go of certain things, or find something that gives you what you are seeking in a different format.

[EriShvakh]

What end game content? I understand that influx of dopamine-starved wow players would lead to a topic like this, but if you're looking for endgame content to keep you glued to a screen 24/7, maybe think about going back to wow, or try PoE or any other game that's focused on wasting your time in exchange for your cash.
I hope someone, somewhere during this thread posted that infamous picture of YoshiP telling you to take a break for a game if you're bored. Because that's the core of this game. Play it, enjoy it, walk away till next patch if you're bored. What do you miss some much? World quests? Pointless weekly mythic dungeon grinds? Pulling the lever every tuesday like a good pavlov's doggie? Because if that's the case - WoW still exists. Still covers that dopamine-junkie niche.
But if you came here, please make sure to respect the rules of our monastery and enjoy tranquil existence between patches. Learn to build a zen garden.

[link-gallows]

Stuff that keeps me busy:

• Collecting all mounts
• Collecting all barding
• Collecting all minions
• Collecting all achievements
• GoldSaucer
• Leveling all classes
• Completing the Fishing Log
• Completing the Sightseeing Log
• Breeding the perfect racing chocobo
• Maximizing my companion Chocobo
• Collecting all costumes
• Collecting all Titles
• Clearing POTD solo
• Clearing HoH solo
• Finishing all crafting logs
• Finishing all beast tribes
• Finishing Eureka

Collecting is cool when the activity you're doing is fun beforehand, but if endgame activity is nothing but collecting, that doesn't sound very fun.

[Nariel]

Collecting is cool when the activity you're doing is fun beforehand, but if endgame activity is nothing but collecting, that doesn't sound very fun.

Idk, its a goal like any other. Sea of thieves per example is solely about collecting cosmetics. Every game have is own "endgame" the purpose you find in the game is your own choice. For another example Pokemon endgame can be about completing the dex or defeating the stronger trainer in fights zones. Once the league is defeated you are on your own, the game have a selection of activity and its yours to choose and do what you like and plays something else on the side once its finished or lack interest until further addition are made.

Its not limited to the genra of a game, its how every game works. Once the main goal is clear you do what you want and call it your endgame goal. There is no game perfect enough to cater to every one desire.

[Asiragan]

I don't get it. Why are you so against end game that you would leave a game that had it even if you had your own stuff to do in that game?

Yes, I guess my most feasible option is to leave... again. Honestly, my main hope upon coming into this thread was to discuss ideas for endgame, but it seems I miscalculated just how vast the amount of people are that just seem to detest all things endgame related. Many here share your viewpoint, that not having much endgame is somehow a good thing. I can try Ultimate, but while I do enjoy difficult content, I'm not looking for my life to be consumed either. I'm casual in the sense that I have a full time job I have to adhere to, on top of other work I do on the side. I can try Ultimate and see how it works out, even though I have already tried it in the past. It's definitely not ideal for me, as I wish there was something in between in difficulty. The me from 18 years ago who didn't have so much work/responsibilities would have been all over Ultimate. It's a bit more difficult now. My main desire was for a different type of content. However, when Savages are burned through in two weeks, it also decreases the longevity of the content that is there and makes the lack of diverse content more apparent. I definitely think they can do better on the fights they do have. The same tome formula, the same square/circular arenas, surely they can do better? There are plenty of raid fights in other MMOs they can look at to draw ideas from.

I'm completely with you on that. But I don't think that you will find a lot of allies on this forum. FFXIV's apologist will go as far as telling you that no end game is better than having one, or that having the same patch cycle going on for 6 years is a good thing. Why bother making content when people are satisfied with a copy and paste, and mobile-like dailies?


Seeing how the game is right now, I really don't think it's a problem of money, they just keep going to do worthless content that no one care about. Remember Lords of Verminion? Or the fight recording thing that no one use because there's too much restriction? 6 years, and yet the code is still shitty and haven't been reworked as it should have been, and yet we get this?

No, the problem isn't money, it's the severe lack of talent for game design in a MMO. And yes, I get it, it's hard to design a MMO. Actually, it's probably the hardest genre to design. But a game being stagnant since Heavensward? Come on...


And no, I don't consider collecting mounts/minions/whatever to be fun content. Maybe it is for you guys, and that's great. But since I don't have collectomania, I really can't care less about gathering every mount/minion/achievements/barding/fishes/etc...

[Zabuza]

I'm completely with you on that. But I don't think that you will find a lot of allies on this forum. FFXIV's apologist will go as far as telling you that no end game is better than having one, or that having the same patch cycle going on for 6 years is a good thing. Why bother making content when people are satisfied with a copy and paste, and mobile-like dailies?


Seeing how the game is right now, I really don't think it's a problem of money, they just keep going to do worthless content that no one care about. Remember Lords of Verminion? Or the fight recording thing that no one use because there's too much restriction? 6 years, and yet the code is still shitty and haven't been reworked as it should have been, and yet we get this?

No, the problem isn't money, it's the severe lack of talent for game design in a MMO. And yes, I get it, it's hard to design a MMO. Actually, it's probably the hardest genre to design. But a game being stagnant since Heavensward? Come on...


And no, I don't consider collecting mounts/minions/whatever to be fun content. Maybe it is for you guys, and that's great. But since I don't have collectomania, I really can't care less about gathering every mount/minion/achievements/barding/fishes/etc...

Yeah, that's definitely been made crystal clear to me. I guess the part that amazes me the most are that people want to keep the exact same system that has been in place for 6 years(tomes, 2 exs, 4 savages). You are correct that the dev team has no motivation to improve anything if people are satisfied with that. I don't really understand it to be honest, but I guess I shouldn't judge if that is what people enjoy. I just don't think I've seen any other MMO where people don't get tired of the same formula for 6 years and want nothing added or improved. I've also never seen any other MMO fanbase that will defend absolutely anything and everything the devs do in the game. No matter what it is on this forum, I've typically seen people attribute it to a problem with the people rather than the game design.

[jameseoakes]

Yeah, that's definitely been made crystal clear to me. I guess the part that amazes me the most are that people want to keep the exact same system that has been in place for 6 years(tomes, 2 exs, 4 savages). You are correct that the dev team has no motivation to improve anything if people are satisfied with that. I don't really understand it to be honest, but I guess I shouldn't judge if that is what people enjoy. I just don't think I've seen any other MMO where people don't get tired of the same formula for 6 years and want nothing added or improved. I've also never seen any other MMO fanbase that will defend absolutely anything and everything the devs do in the game. No matter what it is on this forum, I've typically seen people attribute it to a problem with the people rather than the game design.

What's wrong with the tome currency?

[yukiiyuki]

What end game content? I understand that influx of dopamine-starved wow players would lead to a topic like this, but if you're looking for endgame content to keep you glued to a screen 24/7, maybe think about going back to wow, or try PoE or any other game that's focused on wasting your time in exchange for your cash.
I hope someone, somewhere during this thread posted that infamous picture of YoshiP telling you to take a break for a game if you're bored. Because that's the core of this game. Play it, enjoy it, walk away till next patch if you're bored. What do you miss some much? World quests? Pointless weekly mythic dungeon grinds? Pulling the lever every tuesday like a good pavlov's doggie? Because if that's the case - WoW still exists. Still covers that dopamine-junkie niche.
But if you came here, please make sure to respect the rules of our monastery and enjoy tranquil existence between patches. Learn to build a zen garden.

Im not a wow player, playing this game for 4 years and want more content, game is not in hw state anymore, revenue and number of players increased, time to produce more content. If people pay more, we should get more, thats common logic against your abstractive thoughts.

[Forever_Learning]

Yeah, that's definitely been made crystal clear to me. I guess the part that amazes me the most are that people want to keep the exact same system that has been in place for 6 years(tomes, 2 exs, 4 savages). I just don't think I've seen any other MMO where people don't get tired of the same formula for 6 years and want nothing added or improved. I've also never seen any other MMO fanbase that will defend absolutely anything and everything the devs do in the game. No matter what it is on this forum, I've typically seen people attribute it to a problem with the people rather than the game design.

Thats a very unfair statement and frankly untrue. They have definitely added things, even things considered end-game, which didnt exist in ARR.

The game hasnt remained static.

You can argue they failed to add content that you enjoy, but is that the game’s problem or yours?

[Zabuza]

What's wrong with the tome currency?

The fact that it has a weekly cap for one. But it's more of the fact that everything is the exact same format every expansion. Reskins of everything. Renamed tomes.

Thats a very unfair statement and frankly untrue. They have definitely added things, even things considered end-game, which didnt exist in ARR.

The game hasnt remained static.

You can argue they failed to add content that you enjoy, but is that the game’s problem or yours?

They have added Ultimate. Most of the other new things they have tried to add have flopped as far as endgame goes. Is that honestly just a me problem if so many people didn't like the execution of these other types of content?