Dark Knight: 5.0x Feedback Thread

[FallenWings]

GCD differences

DRK: SE combo, Bloodspiller, StalS combo, Quietus
4 Unique ST keys, 3 Unique AoE keys

PLD: RA combo, Goring combo, Atonement, Holy Spirit, Confetiteor, Prom Combo, Holy Circle
7 Unique ST keys, 4 Unique AoE keys (Confetiteor appears in both ST and AoE)

WAR: Path Combo, Eye Combo, Fell Cleave/Inner Chaos, Mythril Combo, Decimate/Chaotic Cyclone
5 Unique ST keys, 3 Unique AoE keys

GNB: SB Combo, GF Combo, Sonic Break, Burst Strike, DS Combo, Fated Circle
8 Unique ST keys, 3 Unique AoE keys


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oGCD differences
Per minute

DRK: 4x Edge/4x Flood, 1 Ad, 1 CNS, 2 Plunge, 1 BW
9 keystrokes, 5/6 Unique keys
Potency: (550*4) + 220 + 495 + (220*2)
Total: 3355

PLD: 2x SW, 2x Cos, 2x Inter, 1x Fof 1x Requis
8 keystrokes, 5 Unique keys
Potency: (370+462.5) + (295+368.75) + (250*2) + 550
Total: 2,546.25

WAR: ~3x Inf, 2x UH, ~1 Ons
~6 keystrokes, 2 Unique keys, 1 Situational key
Potency: (~1375*~3) + (495*2)
Total: 5115

GNB: 6x Cont, 2x BF, 1x BwS, 2xRD , 1x NM
11 keystrokes, 5 Unique keys
Potency: (840+1008) + (800+960) + 780 + (240*2)
Potency: 4868

Additional 90/2Min buttons
DRK: LS, DE, SE
3 Unique keys, 1.83 keystrokes per min
Potency: 2800 + (330*5) + 330
Total Average per minute: 1400 + 1100 + 220
2720

PLD:

WAR: IR, Ons
1 Unique key, 0.33 keystrokes per min
Potency: ~4840 + 220
Total Average per minute: 3,226.66 + 146.66
3372.66 (Cannot crit or direct hit)

GNB: BF
Potency: ~360
1 Unique key, 0.33 keystrokes per min
Total Average per minute:
240

Additonal defensives used for optimal offensive play
DRK: 1 TBN every minute
PLD:
WAR: Venegance every 2 minutes
GNB:


Total potency gained ontop of GCD via oGCD attacks (and for whatever reason buff oGCDs) per minute average

DRK: 6075 (Blood gain from BW not calculated)
PLD: 2,546.25
WAR: 8,487.66 (7497.66 pot that cannot Crit or Dhit and 7,277.66 of which is Inner Chaos/Fell Cleave)
GNB: 5,108

DRK: 12 keys, 10.83 oGCD CPM
PLD: 12 keys, 8 oGCD CPM
WAR: ~9 keys, ~7.33 oGCD CPM
GNB: 14 keys, 11.33 oGCD CPM

TLDR: If you're gonna take a dump on DRK; maybe play the class first.

[Ultimatecalibur]

TLDR: If you're gonna take a dump on DRK; maybe play the class first.

It was never about average damage more about but what a DRK was doing. During every minute a Paladin is hitting 12 unique keys with the majority being different gcd keys. In comparison, in most minutes the Dark is only hitting 9 unique keys with the majority being ogcd keys.

Also your DRK and WAR potency numbers are inflated because you just added the numbers from the Fell Cleaves and Bloodspillers when factoring the damage gain from those two buffs while also leaving out the 50% increase in damage to Holy Spirit and (access to) Confiteor from using Requiscat.

[waterboytkd]

It was never about average damage more about but what a DRK was doing. During every minute a Paladin is hitting 12 unique keys with the majority being different gcd keys. In comparison, in most minutes the Dark is only hitting 9 unique keys with the majority being ogcd keys.

Also your DRK and WAR potency numbers are inflated because you just added the numbers from the Fell Cleaves and Bloodspillers when factoring the damage gain from those two buffs while also leaving out the 50% increase in damage to Holy Spirit and (access to) Confiteor from using Requiscat.

1-2-3 combo
bloodspiller
CnS
AD
Edge
Plunge
BW
Delirium

That's actually 10 keys. And then, if you extend this to "per 90 seconds" it goes up to 11 keys. And 12 keys at "per 2 minutes". All while PLD doesn't change if you go beyond 60s.

Now, the pacing for DRK does leave something to be desired, I'll give you that. Those first 15 seconds of each minute are really busy, then things calm down for a while. I could totally get behind reducing the recast on AD, CnS, and SE, while also reducing their potency. I think a 30s recast on AD and CnS would be amazing. 60s on SE would be great.

[Reynhart]

That's actually 10 keys. And then, if you extend this to "per 90 seconds" it goes up to 11 keys. And 12 keys at "per 2 minutes". All while PLD doesn't change if you go beyond 60s.

Exactly, you need to extend to two minutes if you want to use 12 differents keys, whereas PLD use them every minute.

Also during those two minutes, you mostly repeat the same 3 GCDs sequence, whereas PLD never uses the same 3 GCDs sequence back to back except during the 4 Holy Spirit spam.

[waterboytkd]

Exactly, you need to extend to two minutes if you want to use 12 differents keys, whereas PLD use them every minute.

Also during those two minutes, you mostly repeat the same 3 GCDs sequence, whereas PLD never uses the same 3 GCDs sequence back to back except during the 4 Holy Spirit spam.

But shrink that window to 10s (an opener), and DRK are hitting more keys than a PLD. PLD does maybe 8 keys (HS, 1-2-3, Intervene, CoS, SW, and FoF). DRK does 10 (1-2-3, BW, Edge, AD, CnS, SE, LS, and Plunge). Over the course of an entire fight, PLD and DRK are pushing the same amount of different keys for an offensive rotation. PLDs push their keys in a more uniform fashion, whereas DRK have their key presses front loaded on the minute. PLD have to not screw up their GCD rotation, or it's big dps loss (they either clip the DoT to re-up it in a FoF window, or they let it fall off and re-up outside FoF), but they don't have to worry about overcapping MP or Oath guage (they only use MP for damage inside requiescat, and Oath isn't involved in dps). DRK are inverted--they still don't want to mess up their GCD rotation, but it's super short, so if they do, it's not a big loss. However, they need to be vigilant about not overcapping MP or Blood gauge, as doing so is costing them dps.

Recently, I've been splitting my level 80 play time between these two classes, as I can't decide which one I like more. They both require effort, but in different ways.

[Reynhart]

Over the course of an entire fight, PLD and DRK are pushing the same amount of different keys for an offensive rotation.

That's not really how you could count that. Pressing Living Shadow every two minutes does not break the monotony of doing the SoulEater combo ad nauseum, whereas PLD as a real "rotation" in its combos.

However, they need to be vigilant about not overcapping MP or Blood gauge, as doing so is costing them dps.

This is not that difficult since you can spend your MP anytime you want, and all for the same result in the end, keeping Darkside up. It would be management if DRK had other things that cost MP.

[Yeol]

This is not that difficult since you can spend your MP anytime you want, and all for the same result in the end, keeping Darkside up. It would be management if DRK had other things that cost MP.

In the past (SB), generating MP was not an issue for DRK, it was deciding what to spend it on.
Now (ShB), It requires you to optimize your gameplay in order to generate MP, spending it is not an issue.

Abilities that give MP:
Delirium: 60s (Generates MP, no MP cost for Quietus & Bloodspiller)
You must fit 5 GCDs of either Quietus and/or Bloodspiller under it. Any less and it will be MP loss.

Blood Weapon: 60s (Generates MP and Blood Gauge)
You must fit 5 GCDs under it. Any less and it will be MP & Blood Gauge loss.

Carve and Spit: 60s
Straight forward, keep this on CDs. Align it with party buffs.

Syphon Strike: GCD (Single target 2nd combo)
You must keep uptime on target as much as you can in order to generate MP and Blood Gauge from 3rd GCD.

Stalwart Soul: GCD (AoE 2nd combo)
Gives you both MP and Blood Gauge.

People can think that generating resources is easy, but it isn't.
You will need to meld skill speed and maybe clip to fit 5 GCDs under Blood Weapon.
Keep uptime on target which requires you to play a little risky.

Missing out on Blood Weapon window alone will cost you to lose 2 buttons.
And if you keep missing it every minute, you will lose 20 buttons in a 10 minute encounter. That is a lot. And this is assuming Blood Weapon misuse only. Not counting the loss from the rest.