Dark Knight: 5.0x Feedback Thread

[DRKoftheAzure]

Let me get this straight. You call me stupid but you are the one who missed the painfully obvious joke about your hyperbolic comments and you even go so far as to use the wrong word to describe what you are saying?

I'm legitimately not even sure how to respond. I've never had someone take such an obvious joke so literally before... (@__@)

And there's the common problem that everyone runs into... text does not translate emotion very well... at least not going into full role-play mode which is probably cringy to the point that no one wants to do it... so we have to make do with explanations through text which also don't translate emotions very well so we end up having to go full role-play mode which is probably like writing a book...

[DemonicNeko]

I've been seeing your posts around a bit lately, and in each one you always have such a cynical attitude and try to basically belittle the OP for creating the thread. It's pretty annoying honestly, and makes you seem very unlikeable, but aside from that, from a straight performance standpoint (meaning how well the class can work its way through content and whether it can even clear content) the Dark Knight is...okay. It's not like the group is doomed if there's a DRK Tank, and they do have a FEW neat skills (mainly just TBN though). At the same time though, they have some pretty horrid skills that need to be looked at (mainly LD and 5.0 base Quietus). Nonetheless, the problem that I and many others have with the class is with its overall design. Sure, the class can clear content, but will it be enjoyable or feel satisfying while you do so? I'll admit this is a somewhat subjective point, but to me, it's silly to think that a class being essentially a night-themed version of a class that already exists while also having less tools and options than said class, is okay. At the end of the day, sure people will enjoy what they enjoy, but ignoring Dark Knight's obvious design shortcomings is a problem.


That being said, I've accepted that the core design of the new DRK (which is exactly what I despise) probably won't change, so my response to that was to pull a Cecil :P

I hope it chances. I hope they add more buttons to push. Honestly I switch over to Paladin which is honestly not much better on the play style. It still very limited on things to push. It just has more OGCD that I can us. At this point I am feeling Classic Wow might be getting a sub from me. As FF14 has pretty much ruined tanking.

[Sancho_Nyanta]

And there's the common problem that everyone runs into... text does not translate emotion very well... at least not going into full role-play mode which is probably cringy to the point that no one wants to do it... so we have to make do with explanations through text which also don't translate emotions very well so we end up having to go full role-play mode which is probably like writing a book...

This will be my last comment on this as we are quite off topic, but if we assume that you are telling the truth and "text does not translate emotion very well". You took my comment at face value and called someone showing concern for your wellbeing stupid for doing so and that's pretty sad.

Going back on topic though, one suggestion that I might have is if they made the Darkside buff only happen from a dark arts FoS/EoS. This would delay our burst but it would make popping TBN more impactful as well as make it so that we actually have to work to keep up Darkside. They would probably need to do other tweaks b/c balancing it would be tricky but that might be something to look at.

[TouchandFeel]

Going back on topic though, one suggestion that I might have is if they made the Darkside buff only happen from a dark arts FoS/EoS. This would delay our burst but it would make popping TBN more impactful as well as make it so that we actually have to work to keep up Darkside. They would probably need to do other tweaks b/c balancing it would be tricky but that might be something small to look at.

That could potentially make Darkside impossible to keep up in some content or some situations. In a lot of content outside of savages at relevant iLvls, only busters really do enough damage to break TBN and even then sometimes only just barely. For example right now when I run Roulettes for tomes, boss busters and even some wall to wall pulls barely do enough damage to break TBN and sometimes just barely miss it by 1-2s. Add to that, that busters often aren't happening at a frequency of 30s or faster and you would be virtually guaranteeing that DRK would not be able to keep Darkside up in a lot of content and therefore drastically hurting the job's DPS potential in a lot of the game.
Not to mention that you would be pretty SoL if you DF queued into a raid and the other tank happens to be a DRK too since you can't stack TBNs.
It's just too problematic for debatably any gain whatsoever and wrests control of keeping Darkside up from the player and makes it contingent on the content.

[Sancho_Nyanta]

I don't disagree with you, hence why I said it would need tweaking. Maybe if they were to make Delirium and/or Blood weapon give you a Dark Arts buff too so that it would combat that kind of issue.

[TouchandFeel]

Even with having Delerium and/or Blood Weapon contribute to Darkside upkeep, it still leaves TBN->Dark Arts as the primary method of upkeep which is inherently problematic.
Buffs and their application need to be proactive and not reactive so that they stay squarely within the control of the player and are not at the whim of the content. TBN, and therefore Dark Arts, are reactive.
It's really best to just avoid tying Darkside's upkeep to Dark Arts.

If you want to make Darkside upkeep more interactive there are a myriad of other ways to do that which are based around proactive abilities, for example just off the top of my head ...
Edge/Shadow only add 10s to Darkside's time and now Blood Weapon adds 10s to Darkside's time per Weaponskill or Spell. Now Edge and Flood are more about keeping Darkside's time from draining too much until the next Blood Weapon where you can really fill it back up, plus some extra wiggle room for fight mechanics/downtime.
Not saying this is what should be done, just an example.

[DemonicNeko]

Even with having Delerium and/or Blood Weapon contribute to Darkside upkeep, it still leaves TBN->Dark Arts as the primary method of upkeep which is inherently problematic.
Buffs and their application need to be proactive and not reactive so that they stay squarely within the control of the player and are not at the whim of the content. TBN, and therefore Dark Arts, are reactive.
It's really best to just avoid tying Darkside's upkeep to Dark Arts.

If you want to make Darkside upkeep more interactive there are a myriad of other ways to do that which are based around proactive abilities, for example just off the top of my head ...
Edge/Shadow only add 10s to Darkside's time and now Blood Weapon adds 10s to Darkside's time per Weaponskill or Spell. Now Edge and Flood are more about keeping Darkside's time from draining too much until the next Blood Weapon where you can really fill it back up, plus some extra wiggle room for fight mechanics/downtime.
Not saying this is what should be done, just an example.

That sounds like a terrible system.
1. Where will I get the mana to use TBN?
2. This does not solve the biggest problem with the DRK. The fact it has no good game play. You just turned it already boring gameplay into a worse one. Plus we are already at the bottom of the tank dps list. Making it so we can not even use Darkside in a boss fight. You might as well removing DRK from tanking in this expansion.

I know this picture is a meme but this pretty much sums up DRK as a hole.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D_CU03BW...g&name=900x900

At this point I am feeling they should go back to HW DRK. At less that one had interesting game play. Unlike right now where we focus on Souleater to build blood points. To use Bloodspiller. Which that all we do when our burst is on cooldown.

SB the started to make DRK into a Warrior Clone. Now in HW they have fully made us a Warrior clone. If I wanted to play Warrior. I would play Warrior and not Dark Knight. Paladin is not much better. Feels like it on it way of being a Warrior clone with spells.

[TouchandFeel]

snip.

I don't think you understood what I was actually speaking to in the post you quoted and instead just read it and jumped to a conclusion. Maybe you should read the posts preceding the one you quoted, not to mention that I explicitly stated in that post and the previous one that tying Darkside to TBN is a bad idea. If you are referring to my off the cuff idea about Blood Weapon adding time to Darkside, I at no point stated it would lose any current functionality like it providing MP and Blood.

So really there appears to be a bit of a disconnect between my posts and your response.

And yeah we all get it, you hate the new DRK and hate the new Delerium but that has nothing to do with my post.

[DemonicNeko]

I don't think you understood what I was actually speaking to in the post you quoted and instead just read it and jumped to a conclusion. Maybe you should read the posts preceding the one you quoted, not to mention that I explicitly stated in that post and the previous one that tying Darkside to TBN is a bad idea. If you are referring to my off the cuff idea about Blood Weapon adding time to Darkside, I at no point stated it would lose any current functionality like it providing MP and Blood.

So really there appears to be a bit of a disconnect between my posts and your response.

And yeah we all get it, you hate the new DRK and hate the new Delerium but that has nothing to do with my post.

Sorry I did miss understand it. Though I still think the class needs a full on rework like MCN. No amount of tweaking to Delerium and/or Blood Weapon will save this class. Nothing short of a total rebuilding from the ground up will fix this class. Shame the Devs do not play tanks or at less anything but Warrior. Paladin does not need to be a spell casting Warrior Clone. Dark Knight does not need to be an edge Warrior Clone. Gunbreaker most likely will get a Warrior clone with guns remake in 6.0. Cause everyone need a freak Inner Release and Fell Cleave.

[RadicalPesto]

Sorry I did miss understand it. Though I still think the class needs a full on rework like MCN. No amount of tweaking to Delerium and/or Blood Weapon will save this class. Nothing short of a total rebuilding from the ground up will fix this class. Shame the Devs do not play tanks or at less anything but Warrior. Paladin does not need to be a spell casting Warrior Clone. Dark Knight does not need to be an edge Warrior Clone. Gunbreaker most likely will get a Warrior clone with guns remake in 6.0. Cause everyone need a freak Inner Release and Fell Cleave.

Paladin doesn't play at all like Warrior outside the 5 gcd spam window... Which was originally a Paladin mechanic to begin with. Its difficult for Paladin to have been designed as a "Warrior clone" when its Warrior that was redesigned to have Inner Release function similarly to Requiescat. Outside of this window (which only barely counts as a burst phase for Paladin, yet is the most important part of Warrior's rotation) these classes have an entirely different combo flow, with Paladin being much closer to a rotational class like Gunbreaker and having no actual resource management.