An argument for removing MP from the game

[Shurrikhan]

For BLM, it's not a matter of inf mp for them. But the tools to give mp to healers or other mages as needed or necessary (mana shift before pre shb).

This is mostly for other castah's and healers adjustments since removing mp would be out of the question. Melee has no interruptions that they need to brace for (if death or otherwise), where as healers and casters overall still get punished by the system in some ways. I recall someone earlier in this forum or another that rdm's could still run out of mp in a 13min fight overall (with mechanics added and assuming no deaths upon a party) in a raid situation, which would be resolved by either removing the mp (which won't happen) or reducing the cast times further down to 30 seconds or even 15 seconds. 60 seconds isn't a lot of time, but still a long time, somewhat? lol.

By nearly infinite MP, I meant the healers. Short of mass-rezzing, MP is effectively a non-mechanic.

[Elkanah]

By nearly infinite MP, I meant the healers. Short of mass-rezzing, MP is effectively a non-mechanic.

Spam those heals maybe? MORE DPS!? INF HOLY SPAM FOR WHM!? XD

[Shurrikhan]

Spam those heals maybe? MORE DPS!? INF HOLY SPAM FOR WHM!? XD

Again, it already is practically infinite, so why do you think they need Lucid Dreaming on a 15-second CD? Or are you just trolling, after all?

[Elkanah]

Again, it already is practically infinite, so why do you think they need Lucid Dreaming on a 15-second CD?

I'm mostly noticing this issue when I'm just doing regular content. Maybe not everyone is having this issue. DPS wise, rdm & smn seem to have this issue as content progresses (as does ilvl). Maybe not all healers, but those of the most unfortunate of events. I might be missing something with their skills (seeing as mine is only WHM50). But seeing healers as a whole at 80, don't seem to be so infinite (even on a normal pack of x3 mobs on a dungeon run pull). This includes a WHM spamming holy fof half their mp pool, and healing the tank for the rest of it (but still coming up just short of 15% of their mp pool) in that pack. Lucid pops once during this instance (that I see), but still boggles down the mp pool enough for them to critical levels. Not quite empty just yet. By then, everything should just about be dead (unless there's that one dps who decides to single target the whole time, which I also see often).

Again, this isn't a means to everyone, and while this occasionally happens from time to time, I just don't see the infinite source of mp you're referring to (just from observation playing dps melee/mages/ranged and tanks).

[waterboytkd]

I'm actually of the opposite mind. I'd rather *all* classes made use of MP. In fact, I feel a number of the gauges could even just be rolled into MP. PLD and DRK could have Oath and Blood converted to MP (and MP costs tuned accordingly). Samurai Kenki could just be MP. Monk Chakra could be MP (TFC could just cost 10k MP, and anything that opens a chakra would just instead regen 2k MP). Even Dragoon. Blood of the Dragon could just turn into a MP drain, with Wheeling Thrust/Fang and Claw regenerating a certain amount of MP. Maybe put the Jumps on MP, so there's some amount of balancing required.

[Shurrikhan]

I'm mostly noticing this issue when I'm just doing regular content. Maybe not everyone is having this issue. DPS wise, rdm & smn seem to have this issue as content progresses (as does ilvl). Maybe not all healers, but those of the most unfortunate of events. I might be missing something with their skills (seeing as mine is only WHM50). But seeing healers as a whole at 80, don't seem to be so infinite (even on a normal pack of x3 mobs on a dungeon run pull). This includes a WHM spamming holy fof half their mp pool, and healing the tank for the rest of it (but still coming up just short of 15% of their mp pool) in that pack. Lucid pops once during this instance (that I see), but still boggles down the mp pool enough for them to critical levels. Not quite empty just yet. By then, everything should just about be dead (unless there's that one dps who decides to single target the whole time, which I also see often).

Again, this isn't a means to everyone, and while this occasionally happens from time to time, I just don't see the infinite source of mp you're referring to (just from observation playing dps melee/mages/ranged and tanks).

Melee don't use MP. Tanks use MP only in the same way that BLMs do. DRK specifically should NOT have infinite MP and it is fine that they're bottoming out during raid debuffs; they should be. As for the rest, that's either a recent death or just really poor play.

This is like complaining that occassionally tanks still lose threat, so every tank should have their enmity stance modifier increased by a further factor of 4. 40x enmity for all the tanks, hurrah!

[DustyBlue]

Lucid Dreaming cooldown is awfully short these days... Can't totally remove MP across the board as things currently stand, but it is clearly becoming less important since Lucid Dreaming is already going the way of Diversion and Invigorate. This conversation will become more relevant as things continue to go in this direction, but for now I definitely don't see the harm in making an option to make MP invisible for all the melee DPS and ranged physical DPS, and warrior and gunbreaker. I don't think a single ability across all of those affects MP in any way.

All the magic jobs still use MP, of course, as well as paladin and dark knight. And paladin and dark knight's blood and oath gauges could probably take up that function. Not much you can spend oath gauge on, and only in increments of 50. Almost can be retooled as a binary switch if the max is 100 and you can spend at minimum 50. Could change it to a charged action, since it's basically at stages of 0, 1, and 2 uses, with nothing in between. Blood gauge is similarly not all that complex or that utilized, same 50/100 paradigm. Could just light up 2 dots like gunbreaker's "gauge".

So that would leave MP as purely for disciples of magic to see. And only magic users having MP, magic points, makes sense. Doesn't make sense for a dragoon or a monk's abilities to be magically based. And I guess that is also why none of their abilities interact with MP currently.

On a sidenote, I do appreciate gunbreaker being a tank that uses something other than a 50/100 gauge. Warrior at least has some stuff that uses 20 beast gauge, so that makes the 100 necessary to think about and more of a fluid resource.

[DenzelVilliers]

just no, i already feel bad about TP, Tank and non magical DPS can spam their skills like crazy without end, if the same happens to mages the game is totally broken, especially for jobs like BLM, WHM and RDM.