An argument for removing MP from the game

[Shurrikhan]

Tbh honest mp could be removed and just be added back as job gauge to caster, pld and drk.
Even RDM and SMN could have their mp removed as only rez makes it relevant. (they could make rez have a charge system to compensate for instance. Same as mp if your spells cost 0. You could only do X rez per Y minutes.)

Anyway, this would also free up more UI space.

Mm. Every job would then just have their 1-2 necessary gauges:

• Healers - SCH: MP/AF. WHM: MP/Lilies. AST: MP/Seals.
• Tanks - DRK: MP/Blood. PLD: MP/Oath Gauge. GNB: Cartridges. WAR: Beast Gauge. (Darkside scrapped in the meantime, as it's presently a non-mechanic past the first GCD.)
• Melee - MNK: GL/Chakra. SAM: Sen/Kenki. DRG: BotD/Eyes. NIN: Huton/Ninki.
• Ranged - BRD: Songs/Spirit. MCH: Heat/Battery. Dancer: Steps/Espirit.
• Casters - BLM: MP/AF+UI+Enoc. SMN: Aether(trail)/Trance. RDM: Black Mana/White Mana.

Adjustments:

• Lucid Dreaming removed from Casters as the only MP-user among them has... infinite MP, except when unable to benefit from Lucid Dreaming anyways.
• Rezzes now sacrifice some manner of gauge for the privilege, making SMN and RDM rezzes consistently quick and responsive but include their "Rez tax" via the gauges themselves -- rather than some rarely felt MP limitations (given the latest MP cost reductions). SMN and RDM rDPS (not pDPS) increased to that of BLMs.
• Similarly, BLM gains an MP-expensive Apocatastasis (usable on others or self) on a 90s cooldown, nullifying the next source of magical raid damage against the target ["raid" as in 'does not work on spells which marked the target ally or were cast targeting the target ally'], stacking with similar effects, to offset the lack of rez.

Again, I'd rather keep MP (or any job-by-job rename) as a second or third resource for each job, with different purposes between each role. I'd love for MCH to use it on turrets, for instance, instead of just having turrets be summoned, effectively, on a SkS-affected CD that punishes unfortunately-timed downtime. I'd love for Bard to use it on their songs. I'd love for Monk to start at a low maximum MP and greatly increase it as GL increases, thereby also increasing the MP regeneration rate, using said MP for both utilities and added damage and flexibility in their damage dealing. I wouldn't mind seeing the extra gauge return as something like a Sanity/Frenzy mechanic for Warrior. Etc., etc.

But, as MP stands now, I can't argue that it can and probably should be removed from all but the six jobs that actually make use of it (only four of which, DRK, PLD, BLM, and WHM even actively manipulate it in any way).

[PondHollow]

Is there any other class than BLM for which MP gates an optimal rotation? If not, then I agree MP should be removed from every class except BLM.

[Shurrikhan]

Is there any other class than BLM for which MP gates an optimal rotation? If not, then I agree MP should be removed from every class except BLM.

It doesn't bar anything rotationally, but MP does at least provide a granular measure of your (# of) remaining casts or abilities available on PLD and DRK, respectively.
So long as PLD's MP generation is not so stringent that every bit of MP must be conserved for Requiescat, then it cannot wholly be made redundant by Requiescat's duration alone (with Req being buffed and HS being nerfed, and both given at the same level, to show their new intended play).
Likewise, as DRK's MP costs encompass 3 spells, 2 very distinct from the last, it probably wouldn't quite do to force the interaction all onto timers and timer-trimming instead.

Additionally, it signals to healers that spamming AoE incessantly is probably not good play, and can at least feign that Cure, Benefic, and Physick are worth having on your bars (though I suppose one could consider that a demerit instead...).

[Acidblood]

While MP could be removed (and replaced with a job resource for those that meaningfully use it) I really don't want to see FFXIV's combat made even shallower than it currently is...

Personally, I would prefer MP to be made even more important as a resource and something that needs to be managed by all jobs, but most especially healers. This would then allow more interaction between classes, and place an emphasis on mechanics and mitigation over DPS a means of difficultly; i.e. if healers had a limited number of heals before going OOM you could create a balance between survival and DPS for difficult content, which would then allow asymmetrical balance between jobs that offer different advantages (e.g. MCH = damage + mitigation, BRD = resource sustain, DNC = utility + boosted damage).

* As a side note I think removing TP was a mistake and that it should have been given meaning for all jobs; e.g. Healer DPS abilities could have used TP instead of MP and certain buffs on otherwise MP based classes could have used TP as a soft cooldown (which would then have made TP regain meaningful to all classes).

[Shurrikhan]

While MP could be removed (and replaced with a job resource for those that meaningfully use it) I really don't want to see FFXIV's combat made even shallower than it currently is...

Personally, I would prefer MP to be made even more important as a resource and something that needs to be managed by all jobs, but most especially healers. This would then allow more interaction between classes, and place an emphasis on mechanics and mitigation over DPS a means of difficultly; i.e. if healers had a limited number of heals before going OOM you could create a balance between survival and DPS for difficult content, which would then allow asymmetrical balance between jobs that offer different advantages (e.g. MCH = damage + mitigation, BRD = resource sustain, DNC = utility + boosted damage).

* As a side note I think removing TP was a mistake and that it should have been given meaning for all jobs; e.g. Healer DPS abilities could have used TP instead of MP and certain buffs on otherwise MP based classes could have used TP as a soft cooldown (which would then have made TP regain meaningful to all classes).

To be fair, as long as it isn't removed from the few jobs who actually respond to it in their gameplay (so, when it's a resource that is meaningfully used), it's not like it'd make the game any shallower.

But, I would like to see it returned to prominence for the rest in some way that doesn't just involve hitting LD/Invigorate on cooldown...

[Acidblood]

To be fair, as long as it isn't removed from the few jobs who actually respond to it in their gameplay (so, when it's a resource that is meaningfully used), it's not like it'd make the game any shallower.

But, I would like to see it returned to prominence for the rest in some way that doesn't just involve hitting LD/Invigorate on cooldown...

True. I meant more in the sense that MP is only common resource left and that removing it would prevent any interaction between jobs with regards to resource management... not that resource management / interaction is a thing in 5.X, but it used to be and it could be again (as long as MP remains in the game).

[Kaiserdrache]

This is how I sed MP being use for each Class:

Bard: uses MP to buff the Efficiency and Durations of their Songs, Skills like Troubadour for example should ne used for this
Machinist: uses MP to convert it into Ether which fuels the Energy Bar to call Mechs AND Turrets, both should be useable together, bring back ground targeting, aoe turret und its explosion skill, Remove just heat and rework the skills that required it, its currently just 1 - 1 gameplay mechanic for a single skill is pointless
Dancer: same as bard, buffs dance efficieny n durations with mp costing skills
Dark Knight: Specific Attack n Self Buff Skills cost MP
Paladin: Specific Attack n Self Buff Skills cost MP as like more powerful Tank Skills to buff Defense Powers of your Group and to protect from lethal damage, that would otherwise kill others
Warrior: Uses MP for self buffs to boost up stats, max health ect to become the true Berserkers that they should BE, also as Job Name, warriors are we all
Gunbreakef: Converts MP into special Magical Bullets, that if used, deal more damage, have more range und can cause sideeffects
Monk: Uses MP for Elemental Stances
Samurai: Uses MP, for gap closers, and as additional activatable buff up cost of Kenki Skills to charge Kenki quicker up in have more potence as lobg you hav mp
Ninja:Uses MP for Ninki Skills and to convert it to required Chakra to perform Ninjutsu with Mudras, due to the usage getting jore limited with Chakra, Ninjutsu become more powerful to compensate, us for gap closers as well, ninjas should be the most mobile job of all
Dragoon: Uses MP for Jumps, making them more mobile ad well, nearly same as like Ninke, less often, but longer distances, Activating Dragon Powers should cost M
Casters of any sort: Uses MP for casting Spells

Like said, basically should every class use mp, there is no good reason why this shouldn't be the case, its only a matter of skill design n balance

[Elkanah]

Honestly, I just think lucid needs to be lowered below 60 seconds. Maybe 30 seconds or 15 seconds. Make it reasonable for recovery of mp quicker. Since a lot of mechanics for BLM has been pulled (to help provide extra mp support to healers/bards/mch/dnc the same).

[Shurrikhan]

Honestly, I just think lucid needs to be lowered below 60 seconds. Maybe 30 seconds or 15 seconds. Make it reasonable for recovery of mp quicker. Since a lot of mechanics for BLM has been pulled (to help provide extra mp support to healers/bards/mch/dnc the same).

You already have nearly infinite MP... How the heck could you even make use of that much MP generation?

[Elkanah]

You already have nearly infinite MP... How the heck could you even make use of that much MP generation?

For BLM, it's not a matter of inf mp for them. But the tools to give mp to healers or other mages as needed or necessary (mana shift before pre shb).

This is mostly for other castah's and healers adjustments since removing mp would be out of the question. Melee has no interruptions that they need to brace for (if death or otherwise), where as healers and casters overall still get punished by the system in some ways. I recall someone earlier in this forum or another that rdm's could still run out of mp in a 13min fight overall (with mechanics added and assuming no deaths upon a party) in a raid situation, which would be resolved by either removing the mp (which won't happen) or reducing the cast times further down to 30 seconds or even 15 seconds. 60 seconds isn't a lot of time, but still a long time, somewhat? lol.