An argument for removing MP from the game

[Rufalus]

Hear me out a sec because I know a lot of people have an instant negative reaction to any kind of change. I think it's worth taking a moment to consider the implications of removing MP from the game. Please wait to read it all first before making a reaction.

MP is a bit of a relic which I think has run its course and now has fewer pros than cons. You're already regulated in how often you can use your powerful job actions by recast timers. The most noticeable lingering effect of MP is being a restriction on how long healers can sustain dpsing before they run dry, especially in spamming aoe dps moves like Art of War for minutes. You want to keep doing aoe dps in big pulls when healing isn't required but MP gets in the way eventually.

It also creates some oddities when MP management is used for a job mechanic instead of a job gauge, with BLM being the only job to guzzle consumables (super ether) to extend its rotation (triple flare or despair). The solution there would just be making a mana gauge for blm and drk to replace the outgoing MP resource, with the triple flare rotation being preserved by making manafont into a charged action (2 stacks).

We're already half way to removing MP by culling most MP utility actions (Manashift, Refresh) with only Lucid Dreaming remaining. Now I think it should just be removed entirely so healers can dps without restriction and without needing to keep pressing Lucid on cooldown. It's kind of an uninteresting band aid button like the old Invigorate for TP.


PROS
1) Healers can freely dps for long periods if MP is gone.

2) Remove some more UI clutter and further reduce memory footprint of HUD elements. Many jobs (War, Drg, etc) don't use MP already but still have the resource displayed.

3) Unify job gauges as the only resource management tracker for all jobs, also eliminating ether consumption for certain jobs.

4) Cooldowns/recast timers and casting times are already sufficient to regulate the use of spells, with MP being a superfluous resource layered on top of that system which rarely affects decision making. If resurrection was free, it'd still have a penalty in the form of a very long cast time if swiftcast is on cooldown. Rdm doesn't have to deal with cast times but its verraise could just be changed into an ability with a 30s (or so) recast time if the MP cost penalty is no longer a factor.

CONS
1) Have to repurpose ether type items and possibly some enemy actions like Magic Hammer.

2) Some people may have a nostalgia for MP in Final Fantasy games I guess, as is the case with Protect.

[Miminming]

But there will be healer who just spam aoe heal in the entire fight... and not to mention infinity rdm raise...

[Magnedeus]

So you wanna make the game boring and less challenging by removing most if not all jobs main resource. No thanks.

[Elkanah]

BLM's everywhere just creamed their pants and need new equipment for flare x infinite.

Let's remove HP too, and defensive cd's so it's only DPS gain and tank enmity for tank stance as Tank gods.

[Shurrikhan]

I'd rather just have non-casters have a resource again, instead of a random static blue bar graphic.

That being said...

So you wanna make the game boring and less challenging by removing most if not all jobs main resource. No thanks.

Mana is relevant to at most 4 jobs' gameplay at present.

[battleshadow66]

So the BLM wants MP removed? Fine, but Flare should be put on a 2 min CD then. You also need to now fill a job gauge to use FIV and BIV (which then uses parts of it and you need to keep building it up).

See where I'm going with this? TP was easy to remove due to it being a very simple resource. MP on the other hand is different. And for them to remove it would mean they would have to rework all the caster jobs so it balanced. Since they are way more tied to there resource then Physical jobs were to TP.

[kidalutz]

Hear me out a sec because I know a lot of people have an instant negative reaction to any kind of change. I think it's worth taking a moment to consider the implications of removing MP from the game. Please wait to read it all first before making a reaction.

MP is a bit of a relic which I think has run its course and now has fewer pros than cons. You're already regulated in how often you can use your powerful job actions by recast timers. The most noticeable lingering effect of MP is being a restriction on how long healers can sustain dpsing before they run dry, especially in spamming aoe dps moves like Art of War for minutes. You want to keep doing aoe dps in big pulls when healing isn't required but MP gets in the way eventually.

It also creates some oddities when MP management is used for a job mechanic instead of a job gauge, with BLM being the only job to guzzle consumables (super ether) to extend its rotation (triple flare or despair). The solution there would just be making a mana gauge for blm and drk to replace the outgoing MP resource, with the triple flare rotation being preserved by making manafont into a charged action (2 stacks).

We're already half way to removing MP by culling most MP utility actions (Manashift, Refresh) with only Lucid Dreaming remaining. Now I think it should just be removed entirely so healers can dps without restriction and without needing to keep pressing Lucid on cooldown. It's kind of an uninteresting band aid button like the old Invigorate for TP.


PROS
1) Healers can freely dps for long periods if MP is gone.

2) Remove some more UI clutter and further reduce memory footprint of HUD elements. Many jobs (War, Drg, etc) don't use MP already but still have the resource displayed.

3) Unify job gauges as the only resource management tracker for all jobs, also eliminating ether consumption for certain jobs.

4) Cooldowns/recast timers and casting times are already sufficient to regulate the use of spells, with MP being a superfluous resource layered on top of that system which rarely affects decision making. If resurrection was free, it'd still have a penalty in the form of a very long cast time if swiftcast is on cooldown. Rdm doesn't have to deal with cast times but its verraise could just be changed into an ability with a 30s (or so) recast time if the MP cost penalty is no longer a factor.

CONS
1) Have to repurpose ether type items and possibly some enemy actions like Magic Hammer.

2) Some people may have a nostalgia for MP in Final Fantasy games I guess, as is the case with Protect.

bad idea I'd go into depth about the poorness of this idea but I'm sure theres others who are more eleoquent.

[Elamys]

Since I didn't feel like stalking your character profile down, I have to ask, have you played a healer? If so, you should understand perhaps a little bit better why removing MP would be a bad idea. Cooldowns and casting times are not enough to regulate the usage of spells. Let's look at your example with Raise; if a cooldown timer gets slapped onto it, what am I going to do when 2 of my DPS and the cohealer just bit it to an AoE? Right now I can choose to raise them all at once if I need them for an upcoming DPS check, or I can space it out a little bit more if I have room to breathe. The addition of a recast timer in this scenario completely robs me of that decision.

What about normal healing spells? For right now, a skilled healer knows how to pick the right tool for the right job and it's easy to tell when because they don't have nearly as many problems with MP. They'll recognize when a Benefic will do the job over a Benefic 2. Without MP, what's to stop me from just spamming Benefic 2 on everything? You can't add a cooldown to a spell like this, because of how damage is delivered in the game.

Also, Square Enix does not want healers to freely DPS for long periods of time. That's why they neutered our DPS kits and lowered our potencies.

It seems to me the only reason people want MP gone is because they don't want a bar that does nothing hanging around on their screen. I get that, it was annoying for me with TP. You don't have to get rid of MP to do that. Just make it a UI option.

[Kaitoo]

HP removal, when?
Pros:
Just dps
cons:
none!

[Blueyes]

I want to point out that this can be done to a degree if handled correctly. There are certain spells that shouldn't be free of cost, but there are plenty that could have their cost removed.

Let's look at Dark Knight as an example of how this can be handled. Most of their actions are completely free, but there are a few that have a hefty 3000 MP cost. Now imagine if this idea were applied to Red Mage, with all spells being free of cost except for Verraise which costs 3000 MP. (Let's also assume that Lucid Dreaming is gone for this example, much like how Invigorate is now gone.) Red Mage now has a soft cap on the number of raises they can hand out during a fight, which is already a thing with the current MP system, except in this example, Red Mage will never be unable to attack with spells due to a lack of resources.

I don't think MP should be universally removed from every spell for every job, but there is room for change that can result in casters feeling less taxing to play.