Question from a new player - can AST change back to what it was before ?

[ErryK]

Unfortunate.

[Adeacia]

AST has different cards. Everyone almost exclusively uses balance. SE makes every card balance, people complain about not having the cards they didn't use anyway.

[HyoMinPark]

It can't go back to SB ast. Why? Tanks have way better defense and more importantly there's no tp. Half those old cards are useless now with the overall battle changes. To want old ast back means you also want tp and everything else they changed. It's not happening like you want it to.

They could have changed Spire's effect to something else (i.e., increased determination) while also changing Balance into direct hit versus pure damage, as it was the "problem child" when it came to old AST. There's no need to bring back TP. And I'm sure Boles would still find some use in Ultimates: tanks hugged tank stance while progging the last two even when they didn't have to, and extra mitigation to survive new mechanics is never something to scoff at. Plus, it would work wonders for squishy tanks in dungeons (which is where I liked to use a lot of my Boles). Don't discount them that easily.

The new cards are significantly better than the old ones. Everything I draw is useful, every time. Manipulating RNG to give me all 3 Seals in as few Draws as possible for a best Divination so I can spend the rest of my Draws on Lords/Ladies is far more entertaining to me than Drawing a TP regenerator for the 6th time.

Did you never use Minor Arcana to get rid of your unneeded cards before?

The cards aren't really much better (they're weaker in potency than old Balance), and I'm actually curious to see AST's rDPS contributions. As it stands, top speedkils are bringing double WHMs right now, not AST - which doesn't spell well for its rDPS contributions. It's already lacking in both damage and healing compared to WHM and SCH, so the cards are all it has. ASTs are severely underrepresented in current uploads. I believe the rates for both EXs are sub-20% for ASTs.

This isn't taking into consideration the issues the job has in dungeons. Single-target encounters seem fine (though Divination windows are a hot mess that require holding Lightspeed in order to execute properly), but they have to work twice as hard with trash pulls compared to WHM and SCH. And their oGCD healing toolkit is extremely weak with the exception of Earthly Star and maybe Horoscope (though the latter has a somewhat clunky execution).

[Insertcoins]

They could have changed Spire's effect to something else (i.e., increased determination) while also changing Balance into direct hit versus pure damage, as it was the "problem child" when it came to old AST. There's no need to bring back TP. And I'm sure Boles would still find some use in Ultimates: tanks hugged tank stance while progging the last two even when they didn't have to, and extra mitigation to survive new mechanics is never something to scoff at. Plus, it would work wonders for squishy tanks in dungeons (which is where I liked to use a lot of my Boles). Don't discount them that easily.



Did you never use Minor Arcana to get rid of your unneeded cards before?

The cards aren't really much better (they're weaker in potency than old Balance), and I'm actually curious to see AST's rDPS contributions. As it stands, top speedkils are bringing double WHMs right now, not AST - which doesn't spell well for its rDPS contributions. It's already lacking in both damage and healing compared to WHM and SCH, so the cards are all it has. ASTs are severely underrepresented in current uploads. I believe the rates for both EXs are sub-20% for ASTs.

This isn't taking into consideration the issues the job has in dungeons. Single-target encounters seem fine (though Divination windows are a hot mess that require holding Lightspeed in order to execute properly), but they have to work twice as hard with trash pulls compared to WHM and SCH. And their oGCD healing toolkit is extremely weak with the exception of Earthly Star and maybe Horoscope (though the latter has a somewhat clunky execution).

I guess I'm just always confused on what they could've change em too if I'm being honest. Like the things I've seen I dunno if that'll work in real life. Like maybe I'm just not seeing what they could've done from what is already here you know? Like how do you make them different enough to matter and not useless but also not make it so everyone only goes after that one card? I'm generally asking.

I've seen people say things like a crit only card and so on. But then my question is could that work live? I like to think they made those changes for a reason and there's Abit of logic to it. Maybe they did it cause everyone only talks about balance. I dunno.

[Sanghelios]

It can't go back to SB ast. Why? Tanks have way better defense and more importantly there's no tp. Half those old cards are useless now with the overall battle changes. To want old ast back means you also want tp and everything else they changed. It's not happening like you want it to.

You are very limited in your thinking here. Getting the old AST system back totally doesnt mean it would come with TP and whatnot back. Spire can easily be changed into a direct hit buff to just say one example. Bole would still have their use, likewise Ewer.

[Hatstand]

I guess I'm just always confused on what they could've change em too if I'm being honest. Like the things I've seen I dunno if that'll work in real life. Like maybe I'm just not seeing what they could've done from what is already here you know? Like how do you make them different enough to matter and not useless but also not make it so everyone only goes after that one card? I'm generally asking.

I've seen people say things like a crit only card and so on. But then my question is could that work live? I like to think they made those changes for a reason and there's Abit of logic to it. Maybe they did it cause everyone only talks about balance. I dunno.

The fact that everyone wants one card shouldn’t be a detriment to the system. Drawing that card should be like a crit - nice, but not counted on, and the rest of the time you work with what you’ve got.

[TankHunter678]

I've seen people say things like a crit only card and so on. But then my question is could that work live? I like to think they made those changes for a reason and there's Abit of logic to it. Maybe they did it cause everyone only talks about balance. I dunno.

The reason why everyone talked about Balance was because there was nothing comparable for the other healers. All the rest of the DPS oriented buffs that AST had were generally inconsistent (Spear) or just not that massive of a DPS boost (Arrow) depending on class. Combine with long durations and there was no real compare. AST could time dilation and celestial opposition to make it so the entire party got a 5% damage boost for 40 seconds and boost a single DPS to have that same boost for 55 seconds. A WHm would need to do massive DPS to equal that raid contribution to be considered as it had no utility to speak of. While SCH could work off of that Balance window.

This is why when people talked about reworking Balance it was always to make it into an inconsistent buff like Direct Hit. This would massively hamper its optimal power output... but also put it completely in line with the effectiveness of the other DPS buffs that AST had. It also lowered the amount of pDPS required for WHM to be considered a viable alternative especially if WHM got some utility thrown into its kit.

[Seraphor]

I still don't think the new system is as bad as people say it is.
Choosing whether a card goes to ranged or melee is no less of a choice than determining who gets a Spear or an Arrow, there's still an optimal target for each with about the same effect.
Bole and Ewer were detrimental to the healer toolkit being RNG, having an additional mitigation skill, and a more effective Lucid Dreaming is far more preferable. And of course Spire was fodder.

That said, if you wanted to reintroduce more randomness, and remove the consistency of all cards being a Balance, while still making do with the Seals (because they're not going anywhere) then I'd suggest:

Balance/Spear/Arrow: All increase Crit
Bole/Ewer/Spire: All increase Speed

Similar sort of choices we have now, but their effects would be more markedly different and more satisfying to use.


Or if you want it to be more complex:

Balance/Bole: Increased DHit for Melee/Ranged
Spear/Spire: Increased Crit for Melee/Ranged
Arrow/Ewer: Increased Speed for Melee/Ranged

Then, Divination could combine the seals of each.
One of each would mean 5% DHit, Crit and Speed boosts.
But with depreciating effects for multiples, so one of each seal is 5%, two seals is 4% each for 8%, and three is 3% each for 9%.
So all Solar seals would mean a 9% DHit boost.
Two Solar and one Celestial would be 8% DHit + 5% Crit. Etc.

This way, your Divination should end up benefiting your party composition. If you have DPS who make use of Crit more than Speed, you'll redraw your Arrows and Ewers, which means you won't gain the Speed seals, and your Divination will be all DHit/Crit, and vice versa.

Then you have your Lord and Lady, those would be your flat Damage boosts.

[TankHunter678]

I still don't think the new system is as bad as people say it is.
Choosing whether a card goes to ranged or melee is no less of a choice than determining who gets a Spear or an Arrow, there's still an optimal target for each with about the same effect.
Bole and Ewer were detrimental to the healer toolkit being RNG, having an additional mitigation skill, and a more effective Lucid Dreaming is far more preferable. And of course Spire was fodder.

Sorry but Bole was great for increasing DPS by reducing the need for GCD healing and Ewer was great for MP maintenance especially in 24 man or dungeon content allowing you to better withstand people going down or enabling you to DPS more. They were not detrimental at all but a straight boon. Not to mention throwing on the equivalent of a 90 or 120 sec tank cooldown and making it last 2.5-4.5x longer was great for the tanks regardless. Be it for wall to wall pulling or for reducing the impact of boss autos and tankbusters to again reduce the need for GCD healing, improve the effectiveness of regen effects, and increase overall healer DPS thanks to more GCDs able to be spent on DPS. Bole amplified our effective healing far more then the weak shield generated by Celestial Intersection.

AST hurts a lot from not having our own built in MP recovery source, something that WHM and SCH get which for AST was originally Ewer.

And the whole Melee/range split is pointless compared to the variety of the old system. Literally the only reason the split and seals even exists is just so that they did not have to remove the entire card system and everything attached to it to turn it into 2 cooldowns, 3 at most to allow for multi casting the single target generic damage buff cooldown. As that is what the entire system boils down into. It is why the new card system is trash.

Spire definitely needed a rework. Every AST agrees on that.

[Seraphor]

Sorry but Bole was great for increasing DPS by reducing the need for GCD healing and Ewer was great for MP maintenance especially in 24 man or dungeon content allowing you to better withstand people going down or enabling you to DPS more. They were not detrimental at all but a straight boon.

You misunderstand me.
Of course their effects were beneficial, but relying on RNG to access them was not. We now have Celestial Intersection, and a more effective Lucid Dreaming.
Potencies could do with tweaking still, that's ASTs main problem now across the board, but the reliability of these skills is much better than hoping you draw a Bole or a Ewer.



There is really no effective difference to choosing between ranged/melee or crit/speed.

If you had a BRD/MNK/NIN, then you're giving them Crit.
If you had SAM/BLM, then you're giving them Speed.
The rest? Doesn't really matter, redraw for a chance at a Balance or just use Spear/Arrow on them anyway.
There's no superior decision making taking place. The effects of increase Crit/Speed might have 'felt' better, but for entirely irrational reasons, you weren't the one receiving the boost.

All of this "choosing between ranged/melee is trash" is utterly disingenuous, salty overdramatisation. It's just different targets, that's all.