FFXIV Housing = UNBELIEVABLY INFURIATING!

[Nicodemus_Mercy]

There used to be 450 houses per server, no apts. Now we have 4,320 houses per server with more apts than players. Where does it it stop huh? When everyone gets a house? They have already stated they can't keep adding more and more. It's about time some balance comes back to housing and it starts with prices.

I disagree.

All that does is price people out of player housing. Perhaps this may come as a shock to you, but most players aren't like you and I with hundreds of millions if not hundreds of billions of gil. New players are joining quite often lately, who don't have anywhere near those kinds of resources. More often than not, the average player is lucky if they have 10-20 million on hand at any given time.

I do believe something needs to change with how housing is handled, but increasing prices just limits who gets to engage in the player housing system. That's not a solution, it's an arbitrary obstacle to the system itself. And honestly, it doesn't help when a single player monopolizes multiple homes that could each house another player or free company.

[The_Last_Dragoon]

What they need to do is just allow players to buy an "expansion" of their apartments so that players can either attach a terrace where they can crossbreed plants, or make the interior slightly larger (I'm imagining a raised ceiling with an alcove that overlooks the main floor). This way you can make gardening accessible to more players without completely diminishing the value of owning a small house. They could make it cost 2 million gil and make it so that in order to change it from the terrace to the alcove or vice versa, you need to buy it again at full price, which would also fulfill it's role as a major gil sink.

EDIT: It's important to note that the terrace would not allow housing items to be placed, and would only allow for the player to do gardening.

[Nicodemus_Mercy]

What they need to do is just allow players to buy an "expansion" of their apartments so that players can either attach a terrace where they can crossbreed plants, or make the interior slightly larger (I'm imagining a raised ceiling with an alcove that overlooks the main floor). This way you can make gardening accessible to more players without completely diminishing the value of owning a small house. They could make it cost 2 million gil and make it so that in order to change it from the terrace to the alcove or vice versa, you need to buy it again at full price, which would also fulfill it's role as a major gil sink.

EDIT: It's important to note that the terrace would not allow housing items to be placed, and would only allow for the player to do gardening.

For gardening they could simple add a new "apartment only" flower pot that can hold say 4 seeds and act as an indoor garden/allow for crossbreeding.

[Mew_FC]

I disagree.

All that does is price people out of player housing. Perhaps this may come as a shock to you, but most players aren't like you and I with hundreds of millions if not hundreds of billions of gil. New players are joining quite often lately, who don't have anywhere near those kinds of resources. More often than not, the average player is lucky if they have 10-20 million on hand at any given time.

I do believe something needs to change with how housing is handled, but increasing prices just limits who gets to engage in the player housing system. That's not a solution, it's an arbitrary obstacle to the system itself. And honestly, it doesn't help when a single player monopolizes multiple homes that could each house another player or free company.

You have ignored my question (not surprising). Rising the prices isn't gonna prevent players from eventually owning a house. The devaluation timer would do it's job over time and plots would eventually drop to 50% of their value. All it would do is stop players from dealing with the hidden timer with virtually every plot that comes up.

Complaining about my FC's houses is like complaining about every single player with a personal house that prevents FCs from getting a house. We're a drop in the sea...

[Toxin_Polaris]

10m would barely even get you a small house on most servers back then...

Once again, raising the prices would remove the hordes of zombies that are waiting for the hidden timer to expire.

You realy do seem to like to ignore any point made and just insist on a form of Gatekeeping right?

[Mew_FC]

You realy do seem to like to ignore any point made and just insist on a form of Gatekeeping right?

And what have I ignored exactly? How you think a lottery system is more fair even though people already hate the RNG aspect. If you want a lengthy reply, write a lengthy post. Housing was never meant to be accessible to every player, get off your cloud.

[Edax]

I disagree.

All that does is price people out of player housing. Perhaps this may come as a shock to you, but most players aren't like you and I with hundreds of millions if not hundreds of billions of gil. New players are joining quite often lately, who don't have anywhere near those kinds of resources. More often than not, the average player is lucky if they have 10-20 million on hand at any given time.

I do believe something needs to change with how housing is handled, but increasing prices just limits who gets to engage in the player housing system. That's not a solution, it's an arbitrary obstacle to the system itself. And honestly, it doesn't help when a single player monopolizes multiple homes that could each house another player or free company.

Housing costs a lot of money in real life and it's not a deliberate arbitrary obstacle to homeownership. It is a solution because it makes housing aspiration. Just as it takes time to level from 1 to 80, it should take time for the player to work towards a house. Not every player has the time to level up their jobs either but that does not mean EXP should be removed as "an arbitrary obstacle" to endgame content. As a new player, I did not have hundreds of millions on hand true, but why would I as a new player deserve a house? Because I pay a sub? Do I deserve free endgame raid gear too for paying a sub? The problem here is that supply and demand are not being accurately reflected in the price.

Houses are VALUABLE and yet it's nearly cheap as free and there's isn't enough to go around. Even I thought it was ridiculous when I paid only 40mil for my Shirogane Mansion. I've probably farmed more than 40mil out of the crop gardens alone since I've owned that house. 40mil from the barest amount of effort. Gil is so little of a concern it's a joke. I'm all for the idea that Housing should be the result of rewarding effort. Given the lengths players will go to own one, it most certainly shouldn't just be welfare handed out only to the lucky.

[TwistedTea]

I disagree.

All that does is price people out of player housing. Perhaps this may come as a shock to you, but most players aren't like you and I with hundreds of millions if not hundreds of billions of gil. New players are joining quite often lately, who don't have anywhere near those kinds of resources. More often than not, the average player is lucky if they have 10-20 million on hand at any given time.

Mew keeps pushing for the old system where prices were higher and that players would be better off gambling with the devaluation timer.

Such a system only benefits those with loads of gil and time to scout for vacant plots.

The devaluation timer is a non-factor when you have players who can buy multiple houses at whatever the starting price is.

Instanced housing (future) would be the fairest solution.

Players who want that persistent neighbourhood feel can contest vacant plots in the existing wards.

Players who own existing housing should not be allowed to own instanced housing as well and vice versa.

Apartment should be upgradeable from small to large and come with balconies for gardening.

Airhsips/Company workshop/submersibles should not be tied to just FC houses and individual players should be able to access these:

For example:

Kugane/Limsa for Submersibles
Sky Steel Manufactory in Ishgard for Airships

If SE wants to keep the persistent neighbourhoods and not introduce instanced housing, then I think a lottery system would be better. For example:

1. If a player wants a specific plot, they have to click on the placard within the hour it opens and put down a refundable deposit. Only the first 10 people, will be in the list/lottery hat.

2. If a player wants a random plot, the players chooses whether they want a small,medium,large and the system informs them when such a plot becomes available.

They then put down a refundable deposit and this list should be limited to the first 30 people within an hour after the system sent out the notification.

This does away with the need for spam clicking and doesn't create long waiting lists. The RNG here would come down to frequent checking when plots become available and 'fighting' those on the current lottery list/hat.

[Nicodemus_Mercy]

You have ignored my question (not surprising). Rising the prices isn't gonna prevent players from eventually owning a house. The devaluation timer would do it's job over time and plots would eventually drop to 50% of their value. All it would do is stop players from dealing with the hidden timer with virtually every plot that comes up.

Complaining about my FC's houses is like complaining about every single player with a personal house that prevents FCs from getting a house. We're a drop in the sea...

You asked a relevant question? No, I don't think you did. But to humor you, yes it "stops" when everyone can have a house. Everyone SHOULD be able to get some form of housing that allows access to all the features of housing. Apartments don't currently offer that. Your suggestion of raising prices would just gatekeep housing it would not address the issue of number of players vs number of available houses that provide all the amenities of housing. Without enough housing for everyone, not everyone will "eventually be able to own a house" because the supply cannot meet the demand. If everyone had billions of gil we'd still be in the same boat.

In the post you replied to I said, "I do believe something needs to change with how housing is handled". I did not say the answer was adding more wards. I know full well that continuously adding wards is untenable. Personally I think that since apartments were SE's answer (that didn't quit hit the mark) to "housing for all" that they should focus on addressing where apartments fall short.

Here's things I think could be done to make apartments more satisfactory to those seeking a home:

1) Add higher tier (and more expensive apartments) that have bigger interiors. The current apartment is fine for the price its at but bigger options would probably be appreciated I'm sure

2) Allow FC's to buy an apartment in the same manner as they buy houses, with the same features (workshop etc), so FC's who can't nab a house can still have a shared communal space for their members.

3) While it would be nicer to have an instanced outdoor space attached to apartments, a simple answer for gardening would be to create "apartment only" indoor garden beds (crossbreeding is another house feature apartment owners miss out on)

The current outdoor homes would simply become status symbols with no significant advantages over apartments like they currently have.

As for my "complaining" I did not specify any player in particular. I'm not going to say I wasn't including you, but I didn't call you out specifically. EVERY player monopolizing multiple houses like you do has no business chiming in on the topic of the lack of housing because those like yourself may well be a "drop in the sea", but you're still not helping the problem by bogarting multiple houses.

[Mew_FC]

You asked a relevant question? No, I don't think you did. But to humor you, yes it "stops" when everyone can have a house. Everyone SHOULD be able to get some form of housing that allows access to all the features of housing. Apartments don't currently offer that. Your suggestion of raising prices would just gatekeep housing it would not address the issue of number of players vs number of available houses that provide all the amenities of housing. Without enough housing for everyone, not everyone will "eventually be able to own a house" because the supply cannot meet the demand. If everyone had billions of gil we'd still be in the same boat.

In the post you replied to I said, "I do believe something needs to change with how housing is handled". I did not say the answer was adding more wards. I know full well that continuously adding wards is untenable. Personally I think that since apartments were SE's answer (that didn't quit hit the mark) to "housing for all" that they should focus on addressing where apartments fall short.

Here's things I think could be done to make apartments more satisfactory to those seeking a home:

1) Add higher tier (and more expensive apartments) that have bigger interiors. The current apartment is fine for the price its at but bigger options would probably be appreciated I'm sure

2) Allow FC's to buy an apartment in the same manner as they buy houses, with the same features (workshop etc), so FC's who can't nab a house can still have a shared communal space for their members.

3) While it would be nicer to have an instanced outdoor space attached to apartments, a simple answer for gardening would be to create "apartment only" indoor garden beds (crossbreeding is another house feature apartment owners miss out on)

The current outdoor homes would simply become status symbols with no significant advantages over apartments like they currently have.

As for my "complaining" I did not specify any player in particular. I'm not going to say I wasn't including you, but I didn't call you out specifically. EVERY player monopolizing multiple houses like you do has no business chiming in on the topic of the lack of housing because those like yourself may well be a "drop in the sea", but you're still not helping the problem by bogarting multiple houses.

Cute, but I would urge you to demonstrate more introspection before playing on this field.

The ward system has been in place for nearly 6 years. You have to be out of your mind to even think about SE scrapping the concept or even divert from it. Regardless, who are you to say that everyone should be able to own a house? Ever since it was released, housing was supposed to be something challenging to acquire. Your opinion on the matter is at the complete opposite of what SE's has been saying.

Your little scenario would make sense if house prices were within gil cap range. But they aren't... talk about an embarrassing flaw... Houses are a fraction of what they used to cost and basically every player is "wealthy" enough, despite remaining dirt poor, to purchase one. Raising the prices up significantly would effectively prevent all those poor players to flood any given plot that comes up. Effectively making it so that the bulk of these players would either have to acquire more gil or wait it out. Either way, widening the gap would greatly alleviate the issues we are currently facing.

Apartments are perfectly fine as they are, especially since they are permanent and do not require to be entered withing a certain period of time. Let's not forget that they are bigger than small houses, excluding the yard, when 2.1 was released. If you want to profit from gardening, just do like every smart player and purchase someone's FC house. It's easy and you get the money back fairly quickly. If SE wants to expand on them by adding additional fees, great. The more money gets taken out of the game the better.

It doesn't matter if you named me or not since you're throwing all the multiple house owners in the same basket. Even though our motives might differ, we can find common grounds when it comes down to defending them. My FC or anyone else have put in the effort to acquire them while other players didn't. If we are preventing other players from acquiring a house, then every personal house owner out there that doesn't have tenants is inherently preventing other players from having a shot at housing. Every personal house owner, even with tenants, is inherently preventing houseless rank 6 FCs with more than 4 members from having a shot at housing.

Using your logic, a whole lot of players shouldn't be allowed to speak on the housing issues. It might even rule yourself out