Proposed fixes to Monk

[Mahrze]

Some people are never satisfied. Can we not all just say thanks devs, we appreciate it?

Thanks devs, I appreciate it.

It's not about not being satisfied. It's about these changes showing that:


1.- MNKs base design has always been so solid, very few things they have added have flowed well with the base design
2.- Most of these QoL changes made very obvious some of the issues and problems that MNK has been carrying for years.


The problem is that these QoL changes did about the same thing as every QoL change for MNK does: Makes the basic skills so good, the new ones are useless. And as you can see by the various replies, its pretty clear. (I know, Crafters say hi)

MNK was gutted and gutted hard and while now with no slowdowns we don't "need" oGCDs to fill in some down time. MNK is still the job who has various skills that are predominantly situational.

Since I read the patch notes I asked myself:


- What is GL even at this point? Clearly not a carrot anymore since its beyond easy to gain.
- What is Chakra even at this point? Still very RNG and easy to "overflow"
- What are Positionals at this point? You have 3 skills that can effectively cancel them 90% of the time.
- What are Fists even at this point? 2/3 have always been situational with one of them always ruling over all.
- 10~/25 skills for MNK relate to GL in some form vs 3~/25 relating to Chakras
- What is even leaden fist and why on bootshine only? Why not leave it as a trait?
- What is Enlightenment even? We had Howling Fist serving the same purpose.


I can go on, (I really can) because I have always played MNK since I started this game 5 years ago and played it every expansion and its always down to basic MNK 2.0, and the only things that have come to the job that have added something new to the job imo have been: Four Point Fury, Elixir Field, Chakras(mixed feelings since its just a charged blow) and RoW:GL4 Kai is all we've "really" gotten since 2.0.

[PeppermintBrown]

- What is GL even at this point? Clearly not a carrot anymore since its beyond easy to gain.
- What is Chakra even at this point? Still very RNG and easy to "overflow"
- What are Positionals at this point? You have 3 skills that can effectively cancel them 90% of the time.
- What are Fists even at this point? 2/3 have always been situational with one of them always ruling over all.
- 10~/25 skills for MNK relate to GL in some form vs 3~/25 relating to Chakras
- What is even leaden fist and why on bootshine only? Why not leave it as a trait?
- What is Enlightenment even? We had Howling Fist serving the same purpose.

Leaden Fist is there to give dragon kick a purpose and still have two single target abilities to cycle through on that form in our rotation. With blut resistance (and all weapon resistances) gone they did this to make sure both skills serve a purpose.

Enlightenment is just an aoe chakra spender.

Both of these serve a clear purpose.

Greased Lightning is there to build up to maximum dps. Sure the ease at which form shift can now keep it up removes some of the depth in terms of using abilities to keep it going or reapplying it quickly, but that's the main purpose. Similar to say huton for ninjas, it's a buff to work towards rather than having max dps right at the start.

Other than true north what is cancelling the need for positionals?

[Shurrikhan]

1. What is GL even at this point? Clearly not a carrot anymore since its beyond easy to gain.
2. What is Chakra even at this point? Still very RNG and easy to "overflow"
3. What are Positionals at this point? You have 3 skills that can effectively cancel them 90% of the time.
4. What are Fists even at this point? 2/3 have always been situational with one of them always ruling over all.
5. 10~/25 skills for MNK relate to GL in some form vs 3~/25 relating to Chakras
6. What is even leaden fist and why on bootshine only? Why not leave it as a trait?
7. What is Enlightenment even? We had Howling Fist serving the same purpose.

1. An annoying wind-up mechanic made to oblige the use of a 2-minute CD (previously both integral, rewarding, and on half the timer), which would otherwise provide fairly little potency value if not for the absurd strength of Leaden Fist, once and only once per instance.
2. A system of 7 which would perform far better if consuming fewer than the maximum value, but for which we lost count at 5 and refuse to do any arithmetic to allow for a remainder or excess of Chakra that would otherwise provide QoL improvements.
3. A thing you lose up to 13% potency on in a given GCD if you really, really suck?
4. A desperate attempt to enforce button-bloat to appear as if skills are useful or well-designed (just because they must be used, however meagerly)? If not for GL4, all but FoF would be something to take off your bar, since there's not a single mechanic you can uniquely escape or survive by use of either, and FoF itself something you macro into your MNK gear swap.
5. Because HW killed Impulse Drive weave for Demo-management, SB killed stanceless weaves for macrorotational and Demo management, and there wasn't really much left to kill after taking out oGCDs than Monk's core mechanic itself. Next: Casters would be so much better if only they could cast on the move! Casting no longer requires you to be stationary. A six-year fundamental issue resolved at last!
6. Previously we noticed that several rotational styles allowed for a 2:1 ratio of BS to DK, which added "unnecessary depth and engagement" to the job that most people would rather pretend just alternates between two skills per form and spins through its cycles really quick-like to the exclusion of all other forms of complexity. We've killed this area of complexity so that others won't have their view of the job upset by the reality of play available at higher levels. Bootshine and Dragon Kick will again properly only ever be alternated in a 1:1 ratio!
7. Take what was given at lower levels and give it back later while splitting what used to be natural AoE strength into binary choices (YOU get an ST/AoE split, YOU get an ST/AoE split, and YOU get an ST/AoE split!) and we can feign the addition of new and complex skills!

[Mahrze]

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I wasn't asking an actual question in any of those (and I think Shur got the idea after a few.) But thanks?

[Silver-Strider]

Some people are never satisfied. Can we not all just say thanks devs, we appreciate it?

Thanks devs, I appreciate it.

Not that we don't appreciate the fixes we've been dying for since forever but to be fair, these issues were of SE's own making. It's kind of like saying thank you to them for fixing your window after they themselves broke it; Yes, you appreciate that they acknowledged and corrected their mistakes, until you realize they left glass shards all over the floor and are mildly peeved by it.

Is MNK's main mechanic (window) fixed? For the most part, I want to say yes.
Are there still highly niche/near meaningless skills (i.e. broken glass)? Tornado Kick, SSS and Anatman say yes.

[Sora_Oathkeeper]

I'm actually enjoying the changes. TK is still useless though outside of an execute / killing the final add in Eden. No slowdown is nice, RoE is amazing in savage and form shift is a nice QoL in dungeons and lastly, meditating to 5 instantly is so much better before a pull now.

Anatman in the opener sucks however, the move itself is okay and is just a lazy man's form shift if you just want to stay in a certain form while keeping GL which I don't mind. I think I would prefer if it generated 1 GL instantly and then every 3s, not tied to the server. Definitely a step in the right direction imo though, i'm enjoying mnk again

[PeppermintBrown]

Letting formshift refresh GL was more than I would have asked for, but I'm glad we got something that isn't yet another situational ability to keep it up. Riddle of earth? Have to get hit. Six sided star? If I'm able to punch the boss form shift was enough honestly. The new level 78 thing? Can't move while using it.

I didn't necessarily want this, where you should never ever have it fall off outside of niche situations like E1 cutscene, but I did want just one consistent way to keep it going. LIke say, a 60s cooldown ability that refreshes GL duration to help keep it going between pulls/during downtime but not having 100% up time with just it alone. Kind of like how dragoons can get a free refresh on BOTD during downtime but they can't keep it up indefinitely without being able to do their rotation.

I appreciate what they did but didn't neccisarily want it 'THIS' easy.

[Sturm]

i have a easy lala. with easy needs.
there is a mob face. there is a fist. boom!

SE bring back the flow into MNK with 5.05. Im very happy with the changes. In special the changes of Form Shift are more than i wanted. But it is good to have in dungeon runs a constantly running flow w/o the need of build up GL every single pull
Im a bit worried about the way SE indicates with the changes of RoE. Idk. RoE and 2 Stacks of True North. The reason why MNK is fun are the positionals. W/o this you only run your 123 combos and thats it ._.!