Job rework: SMN -> VNM

[FrejyaAthenes]

SE: It'd probably be pretty hard to turn SMN into something the playerbase would like.

Playerbase: Actually it'd be super easy, barely an inconvenience.

I spy a Pitch Meeting reference.

[Yandere-chan]

Wow, this thread is...toxic. ☆=(ゝω･)

[LeoLupinos]

Thanks, No.

[Len]

I'll pass on that.

[Trensharo]

Lackluster attempt to turn Summoner into EQ/EQ2 Necromancer, when it's actually closer to an EQ Magician or EQ2 Conjuror.

If they removed the DoTs and reworked the DPS into the Pet, Demi-Primals, and Nukes (Ruin, etc.), they could just add in another class that is more like this in a future expansion.

Personally, I think I've been spoiled by the Necro/Warlock classes in EQ/WoW games. I don't think they can ever make the summoner in FFXIV as good - because the designers aren't good enough and the player base will hamstring them with lore; leading to persistent disappointment because they cannot implement ideas which would be hard or impossible to balance (or implement, at all).

[RulerOfPotaoes]

If i were a betting man id say on the next big expansion they'll probably remove the DoT aspect on SMN and make more focus on Ruin and Summoning etc.

They'll then probably make a completely new job (probably a caster) based around DoT.

[Taranok]

If i were a betting man id say on the next big expansion they'll probably remove the DoT aspect on SMN and make more focus on Ruin and Summoning etc.

They'll then probably make a completely new job (probably a caster) based around DoT.

Which would be fine. Summoner's rotation in ARR was based around a "summoner" who had a clunky, awful pet that was pretending to be an actual summon, and the rest of the rotation was entirely designed around giving the class something to do, basically period.

As the class has matured, the DoT-based mechanics started to feel old and were actively holding back the class as it pushed towards having real summons instead of the egis, it's just a matter of finding ways to meaningfully interact with the summons.

That said, a DoT-based class is very difficult to actually balance and make interesting, and some of the best mechanics for a DoT class basically cannot work as long as the server code has snapshotting, since DoTs are at their most interesting when you can actively manipulate their lengths, tick rates, and have buffs that affect the dots retroactively while up, such as doubling the tic rate without adjusting the duration at all.

Once we get stuff like that, a true DoT class might be able to show up again, but until then it's just not easy to make a DoT class interesting.

[Nyoraii]

As of today, I know the devs are listening! Patch 5.05 brought changes that concern only true Venomancers (VNM)!



And as you all are tired of knowing, SMNs already do most of their damage from dots and nukes tied to dots, so it's only a matter of time until they get rid of these pesky """Summons""" and go full on with the rework to Venomancer!

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/RFmv7...-done&source=6

Let me do this complex algebra...

Venomancer:
RuinIII + Fester + RuinIV + BioIII + MiasmaIII + RuinII + Energy Drain
21.78 + 11.41 + 10.32 + 7.6 + 7.9 + 1.82 + 1.73 = 62.26

Phoenix:
Brand of Purgatory + Revelation + Fountain of Fire + Scarlet Flame
5.84 + 4.99 + 4.69 + 4.41 = 19.93

Bahamut:
Akh Morn + Wyrmwave + Deathflare
4.54 + 4.07 + 2.12 = 10.73

Ifrit:
Burning Strike + Crimson Cyclone + Flaming Crush + Inferno
3.85 + 0.88 + 0.86 + 1.19 = 6.78 (lmao)

Phoenix + Bahamut + Ifrit
19.93 + 10.73 + 6.78 = 37.44

VNM/SMN = 62.56/37.44 = 1.66

It's easy to see that the Venomancer (VNM) is almost 2x stronger than the Summoner (SMN). My point stands that SMN is more VNM than SMN and it's only a matter of time until they go through this rework!

[Atamis]

I support the venom cause. Summoners should not go forward with this stain on their legacy.

[Tulzscha]

This would be my new main in a heartbeat.

M o A r D o T s !