WHM DPS needs to stay this high.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

It's pretty obvious at this point that WHM DPS is very strong. It has the potential to go beyond tank DPS and match a lacking support DPS. I feel like this is how WHM should have been since HW.

Now, the healer complaints have been strong from AST and SCH specifically. They'll more than likely receive sweeping buffs before the Savage raid hits.
I just want to put it out there that SCH and AST, should they receive DPS buffs, should not come close to WHMs dps. And WHM dps shouldn't be nerfed down.
WHM needed something to call it's own, and while the other two healers can say they have utility, WHM should be able to keep this amount of DPS potential. We'll be right back where we started if we lose this advantage in personal DPS.

I just felt like I needed to say that, after reading multiple comments about how SCH and AST needs to be stronger

[Alphras]

I don't see a reason why healers should do less damage than tanks in general. Both roles have a primary objective (tanking or healing) and a secondary in dps (group or self).

It is also not true that WHM is approaching the damage of dps classes. You will only see that if there is a disparity in skill or item level, but that has always been the case. https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statisti...1045&class=Any

There are however some strange interactions currently. A WHM Glare for example is more worth than a PLD Holy Spirit irc. Which would mean it is more efficient for the PLD to use Clemency, than for the WHM to heal. If that is really the case something needs to be changed.

[BunnyChain]

I've recently tried to look into it and calculate how much you really benefit from Chain Strategem. And let's just say it's difficult to pin-point how much stronger a crit over a regular hit is. It seems to vary wildly between 30% (tank) and 170% (MNK) extra damage which likely itself depends on the current point of the rotation and party composition. It varies even between skills for a job. If anyone knows more about this, I'd like to see it.


edit:

If we take a very rough average of 50% extra damage from a crit, at 100k rDPS burst damage average in an opener and assuming CS straight up adds +10% crit rate, it amounts to +700 rDPS from Chain Strategem at 4 uses in a fight.

[Alphras]

A crit does not do 100% extra damage, it is 40% by default irc. And direct hits have nothing to do with chain stratagem, since they are additive (I think the damage increase by a direct hit is always the same percentage).

Edit: http://theoryjerks.akhmorning.com/stats/crit/

[BunnyChain]

A crit does not do 100% extra damage, it is 40% by default irc. And direct hits have nothing to do with chain stratagem, since they are additive.

Edit: http://theoryjerks.akhmorning.com/stats/crit/

Thanks, if I look at the difference at max, it seems to be closer to 50% over the entire fight which does fit around current 2k crit you have with 80 gear.

[Lagomorph]

According to stone sea sky hp values, whm is expected to do around 1.2k more than sch is. Now in 8 man content, if you have a group of skilled players who are able to both use raid buffs well and play their classes to their full potential, you'll rarely exceed 75k raidwide dps. Chain stratagem is 10% crit buff for 15 seconds, with a 120 second cooldown. Essentially it's a 5% damage buff with 12.5% uptime. This raid buff would provide 469 dps if raid damage is constant throughout the encounter. Now this isn't quite true; classes have burst phases to account for, so we can assume that this buff is slighly more potent that 469 dps in a high-end group. In your average pug, I can guarantee you that it is worth far less than 469 dps. But the dps difference between whm and sch is nearly triple this. In short, thinking that whm is balanced in its current state is ridiculous. Raid contributions is a bit more difficult to calculate for ast, but I'm pretty sure that the disparity here would be even larger. I think that better way to bring balance to white mage would be to bring its dps in line with the other healers, and give them some sort of utility. Would it really be that hard to add some kind of damage buff onto that pretty underwhelming level 78 asylum trait? Also, sch does not need to be stronger. We just need our kit to work together better. Sure I want energy drain back, and if it came with a potency nerf to broil that ended up with sch doing less damage overall, I'd still be happier with sch than I am right now. I don't really play ast much, but I think that they actually need potency buffs though.

[Hustensaft]

According to stone sea sky hp values, whm is expected to do around 1.2k more than sch is. Now in 8 man content, if you have a group of skilled players who are able to both use raid buffs well and play their classes to their full potential, you'll rarely exceed 75k raidwide dps. Chain stratagem is 10% crit buff for 15 seconds, with a 120 second cooldown. Essentially it's a 5% damage buff with 12.5% uptime. This raid buff would provide 469 dps if raid damage is constant throughout the encounter. Now this isn't quite true; classes have burst phases to account for, so we can assume that this buff is slighly more potent that 469 dps in a high-end group. In your average pug, I can guarantee you that it is worth far less than 469 dps. But the dps difference between whm and sch is nearly triple this.

Chain Stratagem is also exclusively single-target, while Lily and Assize deal AoE damage... In any scenario where this matters, the gap is even bigger.

[Alphras]

According to stone sea sky hp values, whm is expected to do around 1.2k more than sch is. Now in 8 man content, if you have a group of skilled players who are able to both use raid buffs well and play their classes to their full potential, you'll rarely exceed 75k raidwide dps. Chain stratagem is 10% crit buff for 15 seconds, with a 120 second cooldown. Essentially it's a 5% damage buff with 12.5% uptime. This raid buff would provide 469 dps if raid damage is constant throughout the encounter. Now this isn't quite true; classes have burst phases to account for, so we can assume that this buff is slighly more potent that 469 dps in a high-end group. In your average pug, I can guarantee you that it is worth far less than 469 dps. But the dps difference between whm and sch is nearly triple this. In short, thinking that whm is balanced in its current state is ridiculous. Raid contributions is a bit more difficult to calculate for ast, but I'm pretty sure that the disparity here would be even larger. I think that better way to bring balance to white mage would be to bring its dps in line with the other healers, and give them some sort of utility. Would it really be that hard to add some kind of damage buff onto that pretty underwhelming level 78 asylum trait? Also, sch does not need to be stronger. We just need our kit to work together better. Sure I want energy drain back, and if it came with a potency nerf to broil that ended up with sch doing less damage overall, I'd still be happier with sch than I am right now. I don't really play ast much, but I think that they actually need potency buffs though.

Chain Stratagem is all about burst windows and coordinating with your group, so you can't just math it against general raid dps. That is underrepresenting it's value pretty hard. Same with stuff like Trick Attack or Battle Litany.

[Lagomorph]

Chain Stratagem is all about burst windows and coordinating with your group, so you can't just math it against general raid dps. That is underrepresenting it's value pretty hard. Same with stuff like Trick Attack or Battle Litany.

If you double my projected value chain strategem's contribution, which I think that we can agree would be a gross over representation of its contribution, whm is still far ahead. Further, I used numbers of what a high end group would pull. I'd argue that 469 dps is already an over representation of chain stratagem's contribution in the majority of scenarios.

[KokonoeAiyoko]

SCH and AST, should they receive DPS buffs, should not come close to WHMs dps.

Well this is hella biased.