[Spoilers] Rethinking the Twelve

[MrThinker]

While certainly the implication is that the WoL is reincarnated piece of the 14 Convocation's soul, I've also been entertaining the theory that Minfillia/Ryne actually are the holder of that spot. Minfillia always seemed to have a deeper connection to Hydaelyn than even the WoL and her role as Word of the Mother would seem to be one to be held by the one who came up with the idea to summon Her.

Another reason I've been entertaining this idea is due to the battle with Hades, specifically when we break free from the chains he puts on us near the end and Light swells up briefly. I've had two theories as to what this specifically represents.

1.) The more likely one IMO, is that Hydaelyn intervened at this specific point in our favor to give us just the edge we needed to end the fight. Of course she's still greatly weakened thus why the Light started fading so quickly after we were freed. Thus the "Warden's Light" would be hers, the one who imprisoned Zodiark.

2.) Rather than Hydaelyn we did free ourselves with a great surge of Light at that point with slight aid from our Blessing. Again explains why it fades, but the important part here is the "Warden's Light." Because who among the Twelve has that title? Azeyma, thus meaning if the Warden comment was supposed to be about the WoL instead of Hydaelyn that gives heavy implications towards who the original owner of the WoL full soul is.

Personally I also feel if the rest of the Scions were also part of the group who summoned Hydaelyn, Twelve or not, they'd also have the Echo. But we don't even fully understand it yet though given how much we've learned this xpac that may been one of the things that will be answered in the not-so-distant future.

I personally thought he was talking about the title of the 14th Convocation member at the time, like how Elidbus is Emissary, Lahabrea is Speaker and Emet himself is Architect.... but looking back on it it seems more likely he was talking about the Lightwardens' Light. Like he is wondering that the stress of battle caused us to actually succumb, but then realizes it's the power of the Blessing.

[Dualblade]

I personally thought he was talking about the title of the 14th Convocation member at the time, like how Elidbus is Emissary, Lahabrea is Speaker and Emet himself is Architect.... but looking back on it it seems more likely he was talking about the Lightwardens' Light. Like he is wondering that the stress of battle caused us to actually succumb, but then realizes it's the power of the Blessing.

Thats...a very good point actually. I just got so used to that being specifically [B]Light[B]warden instead of just Warden that it didn't even register for that part.

My theory is void then!

[MrThinker]

Thats...a very good point actually. I just got so used to that being specifically [B]Light[B]warden instead of just Warden that it didn't even register for that part.

My theory is void then!

To be fair, we had an entire zone's worth of lorebombs dropped onto our heads and made us completely forget about most of the terms used in the previous 90-ish percent of the story :P

EDIT: It has come to my attention that Emet-Selch is most likely NOT the Architect of the Convocation.

When you are gathering info in Amaurot and talk to the Ancient in the Bureau of the Architect, they say that we came to the wrong office.

[Seraphor]

And bear with me...
Zenos (Halone) [The description of Halone during the creation myth matches Zenos too well] [Maybe he will become an ally in the future? Who knows.]

Your thoughts on this topic?

This is the main thing that threw me.

Going on the assumption that the Echo is the sign of a sundered Amaurotine soul (it seems to be the one power we share with the Ascians) that rules out Zenos, as he doesn't have the Echo, he needed an artificial resonant.

This also rules out any of the scions who don't have the Echo.


The Twelve could symbolically represent the Scions, but I doubt they're all actual reincarnations or fragments of them.

[Neophyte]

What do pppl think about edens signature move and the roman numerals?
As far ad we know it implies either a connection to 'The Twelve' or a connection to the Ascians, right?

What I also wonder about:
It is said that before the first calamity the Twelve walked on the realm.
What I'm curious about is, based on all we know (and the above is kinda true)... what are they?

If I assume it's former Ancient people then how does this work? Because before the first calamity everyone should be quite powerless (no rejoined Ancient souls yet).

Were the summoners of Hydalien transformed into those 'gods' instead of being sundered (or maybe they were just unsundered Ancient, bcs that's pretty much the same as being a god)?

[FJerome]

If I assume it's former Ancient people then how does this work? Because before the first calamity everyone should be quite powerless (no rejoined Ancient souls yet).

It may depend on when Midgardsormr showed up. Until he negotiated working as a living aether-dam in exchange for cheap rent there would have been a lot of aether just sloshing around free to use, regardless of everyone's individual aetherpools (something of a major design-flaw with Hydaelyn, IMO).

[MrThinker]

What do pppl think about edens signature move and the roman numerals?
As far ad we know it implies either a connection to 'The Twelve' or a connection to the Ascians, right?

What I also wonder about:
It is said that before the first calamity the Twelve walked on the realm.
What I'm curious about is, based on all we know (and the above is kinda true)... what are they?

If I assume it's former Ancient people then how does this work? Because before the first calamity everyone should be quite powerless (no rejoined Ancient souls yet).

Were the summoners of Hydalien transformed into those 'gods' instead of being sundered (or maybe they were just unsundered Ancient, bcs that's pretty much the same as being a god)?

Personally I just see it as a direct reference to Eden's animation in FFVIII. From the moment the symbols appear on the planet to galaxy exploding is a 1 to 1 HD version of the animation, and as such likely carries no extra significance.

[RenewalXVII]

I personally thought he was talking about the title of the 14th Convocation member at the time, like how Elidbus is Emissary, Lahabrea is Speaker and Emet himself is Architect.... but looking back on it it seems more likely he was talking about the Lightwardens' Light. Like he is wondering that the stress of battle caused us to actually succumb, but then realizes it's the power of the Blessing.

Just adding to this for further confirmation, the text box for the fight specifically says Wardens, plural. It's 100% referring to the Lightwardens, unless one wants to suppose it's a typo.

[Dyvid]

Well I do think the twelve are the group of ancients that banded together to summon Hydaelyn. I don't think current people are a manifestation of the twelve.

[Daralii]

Just adding to this for further confirmation, the text box for the fight specifically says Wardens, plural. It's 100% referring to the Lightwardens, unless one wants to suppose it's a typo.

"Has the Wardens' Light won free!? No... Damn you... Damn your wretched Blessing! I will extinguish the spark of your miserable lives! That Light split the world, and every life upon it!"

The plural possessive makes it pretty blatant that he means the Lightwardens, and then whose Light it is.