Post-Shadowbringers Speculation

[QT_Melon]

Since the Datalogs were mentioned, posting both sets the ones from the Twinning and the Akadaemia


Twinning
https://imgur.com/a/ZXisytc

Akadaemia

https://imgur.com/a/8iB09UM

[QT_Melon]

We also don't know if Hydaelyn really is the one keeping the Shards sepprate from the Source. It could very well be the case that killing Hydaelyn would not change how the Shards and Source function.

I'd agree with the latter but I question the former since I recall her distinctly saying she did it?

[ObsidianFire]

Oh, Hydaelyn did Sunder the Source into the Shards, no question about that. What isn't known is if she is still keeping them separate or if the Source/Shards being separated are "how the world works now" and don't depend on her being there to stay separated. Another thing that may or may not depend on her is the cycle of rebirth that all aether goes though. There's a lot of different processes that Hydaelyn may be vital in keeping going since they don't seem to have existed before she did and we have no evidence either way about what could happen to those processes if she dies or stops existing.

In the same vein, Zoidark rewrote the Laws of Reality somehow to keep what happened in the Last Days from ever happening again (probably changed how Creation Magic worked). He also rejuvenated the planet from all the destruction that happened to it in the Last Days. When Hydaelyn Sundered Zoidark, she specifically did not kill him, but sealed him away. My question is... does killing Zoidark undo what he did to reality and the Planet or does it not? 'Cause if Zoidark's "fix" to reality stops working if he's gone... yikes... out of control magic would be... bad...

One of the really big things that makes killing Zoidark and Hydaelyn different then killing other primals is how much what they do might still be effecting reality as we know it. And we have very little information about how much or how little it would effect reality if they were to stop being around. One the one hand, their changes might be permanent and killing them would change nothing. On the other hand, the very laws we know define how much of reality works might become undone and plunge the world into chaos and reduce several world's into nothing but aether while the aether cycle grinds to a halt. But, we don't have anywhere near enough evidence to know what would actually happen. Just enough to know that both Zoidark and Hydaelyn were created specifically to change how reality worked and change it they did. Messing around with the beings who changed reality in ways we are still not totally aware of sounds like a really, really bad idea.

[Ardox]

Oh, Hydaelyn did Sunder the Source into the Shards, no question about that. What isn't known is if she is still keeping them separate or if the Source/Shards being separated are "how the world works now" and don't depend on her being there to stay separated. Another thing that may or may not depend on her is the cycle of rebirth that all aether goes though. There's a lot of different processes that Hydaelyn may be vital in keeping going since they don't seem to have existed before she did and we have no evidence either way about what could happen to those processes if she dies or stops existing.

In the same vein, Zoidark rewrote the Laws of Reality somehow to keep what happened in the Last Days from ever happening again (probably changed how Creation Magic worked). He also rejuvenated the planet from all the destruction that happened to it in the Last Days. When Hydaelyn Sundered Zoidark, she specifically did not kill him, but sealed him away. My question is... does killing Zoidark undo what he did to reality and the Planet or does it not? 'Cause if Zoidark's "fix" to reality stops working if he's gone... yikes... out of control magic would be... bad...

One of the really big things that makes killing Zoidark and Hydaelyn different then killing other primals is how much what they do might still be effecting reality as we know it. And we have very little information about how much or how little it would effect reality if they were to stop being around. One the one hand, their changes might be permanent and killing them would change nothing. On the other hand, the very laws we know define how much of reality works might become undone and plunge the world into chaos and reduce several world's into nothing but aether while the aether cycle grinds to a halt. But, we don't have anywhere near enough evidence to know what would actually happen. Just enough to know that both Zoidark and Hydaelyn were created specifically to change how reality worked and change it they did. Messing around with the beings who changed reality in ways we are still not totally aware of sounds like a really, really bad idea.

Thanks for this post

[Jaywalker]

QT, thank you so much for sharing the logs! Hero of the day, I have been pretty much constantly forgetting to check the notes from Akademia when I do runs there.

Another speculation bit. Re-watched some of the final cutscenes recently and am currently waffling on interpretations.

From the point of the party beating the Amaurot dungeon, trying to decide if Emet-Selch was fully, partially, or not-at-all going for suicide-by-cop with the WoL.

Right now leaning toward maybe-partially because he did seem very sincere about how devastating it would be not to succeed in bringing the sacrificed Amaurotines back. And I do think that after everything he and the other Ascians had done across millenia for their cause, it makes sense that losing grip of that cause would be unfathomably devastating. But at the same time, I also think there were points where it kind of seemed like he was specifically trying to goad the WoL into killing him and proving that mortals were, in fact, worthy successors. The gremlin line in particular came across that way to me, as did the fact that he only stops slouching as he's about to die.

Idk how much was conscious and atm think he might have just wanted two things in direct conflict with one another (to lay the burden down and put an end to the cycle of destruction, to go back to the world and people he lost and find all of his efforts mattered), but curious what other people think.

[QT_Melon]

Zenos logic -Why not one primal when you can get both?

[RopeDrink]

Everyone: Emet finally stopped slouching just before his death.
Me: Emet's near-death form utilized the standard robed Ascian model, which is always upright.

Come on, people. I get that it's a more symbolic sort of ending (and cool speculation), but the robed model doesn't slouch, as evidenced when Emet confronted the Mayor of Eulmore standing upright.

[Iscah]

Everyone: Emet finally stopped slouching just before his death.
Me: Emet's near-death form utilized the standard robed Ascian model, which is always upright.

Come on, people. I get that it's a more symbolic sort of ending (and cool speculation), but the robed model doesn't slouch, as evidenced when Emet confronted the Mayor of Eulmore standing upright.

Weird thing though - he's actually using an Elezen model throughout the game. It's a custom stance and I don't think he ever used generic emotes - nothing that made me realise it - and I was surprised when I looked up his character data. I'd assumed he was a custom model like Zenos and Varis.

Still, it's a little odd they use the generic stance after they hid it so well up to that point.

[Jaywalker]

Everyone: Emet finally stopped slouching just before his death.
Me: Emet's near-death form utilized the standard robed Ascian model, which is always upright.

Come on, people. I get that it's a more symbolic sort of ending (and cool speculation), but the robed model doesn't slouch, as evidenced when Emet confronted the Mayor of Eulmore standing upright.

Lol in the interest of transparency I have zero idea what the limitations are for movement and posturing in this game. When it comes to how stuff is programmed (it that's even the right way to put it, I really got no clue) I'm just gonna defer to people who know the stuff.

I do think though, sometimes the limits/capabilities of a medium mesh conveniently with how a story is being told. Symbolism and such. If we're gonna be super technical they probably could have had him die in his Garlean outfit instead to keep the slouching. It seems like something where they looked at what could be done and just worked it to their advantage.

Also, honestly I should've said before but in terms of slouching/not slouching my impression is he's got an "I'm PERFORMING" persona versus being himself? Vauthry business and even interacting with Varis I figured he was putting on a show.

[Tigerfury]

If Emet-Selch somehow was ultimately successful and completed all rejoinings, wouldn't any Garleans that survived all the calamities be first in line for sacrifice to restore the ancients? Given that after all of the rejoinings that have already occurred that a trademark of the race is still that they have 0 capacity for manipulating aether, I reason that they are one of the post-sundering "creatures" and have no shattered ancient souls that would reforge like the WoL's.

I have to say, that is a pretty great joke to play on the Garleans if you are Emet-Selch. Line them up as fodder to ready the world for each rejoining(at least in the scope of the story since 1.0), then toss them on a pyre to sacrifice to Zodiark to bring back his real pals.

If that is Ascian humor, I respect it.