MNK feels dismal to play and it's not anything that can be fixed with a simple patch.

[KanameYuuki]

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It certainly isn't a SB MCH situation by any means, that one wasn't fun nor had good numbers, and a newcomer would probably find that everything is fine, the problem is when you have basically the same class from what will be 7+ years now, except with less skills, while every other job has some shining new skills this one is just there along for the ride, the job really needs a good prune(is that the right word?), rework of a lot of its skill and just a basic direction of what they actually want it to be, is it a fast hitter? is it only sometimes? it is more RNG that AST ever was? is it supposed to dance between stances frequently?

But yeah at this point if they add a disengage and remove RoF slow I'll take it and reluctantly shut up forever.

[Kahnom]

I believe we need the skill like Umbra Soul that can be used without targeting enemy.
Its fine to not increase our GL stack but let it reset timer to fullest is more than enough.
It will be useful more than 6SS,I guaranteed.

[silverdragontyr]

It's not like Monk is unplayable. It's not like it's putting out crap damage. They're also not topping any charts however. Monk takes an astounding amount of effort to maintain or middle of the road-mid high damage, as well as always needing to be close withing danger range. If the enemy moves for any reason where you can't hit them for more than 10+ seconds, more often than not you lose your damage and need an investment of another 10+ seconds to regain full damage. A damage again, that isn't outstanding by any means compared to other classes.

No other class is punished this hard by mechanics they often can't control. Monk shines best when an enemy stands there, doesn't move and lets you hit them. This never happens on anything that matters. Monk has fundamental problems when facing battles that are designed the way they want t design them.

[ZyrinMisharuji]

In my opinion MNK doesn't need a complete rework. Little changes over the course of the expansion would be fine. In patch 5.05 the big 2(3) I wanna see are:

1) Make Tornado Kick function like Foul. Maintain GL for x amount of seconds and you proc TK. This makes it rewarding to maintain GL which they are HEAVILY emphasizing in this expansion and allows us to use our most potent ability (since, ya'know, we're literally the ONLY job in the game whose most powerful move is situational and not just part of the rotation). Additionally, make 6SS an oGCD that when used triggers the GCD. Honestly, I'm fine with it being the downtime skill if TK gets reworked. Especially if it's an oGCD, it'll be simple to weave it in before re-positioning.

2) Give Anatman an instant tick. That's all it needs, and yeah give SAMs an instant tick on Meditation as well, idc. Having to wait for that Anatman tick in the opener is so annoying and just makes the job feel incredibly slow.

BONUS: 3) I would be fine with or without this change in 5.05, but if they gave us another oGCD to use I'd be very happy. Personally, I want One Ilm Punch to come back as an oGCD on a 60 second CD with a potency of 300 or something. A nice hard-hitting oGCD to weave every minute and would align with every raid buff (just not always RoF and BH unless they rework those to be RoF - 60 second CD, 10-15% damage buff, no slowdown. BH - 120 second CD, 50% chance to proc chakra instead of 30%).

[Drayos]

It certainly isn't a SB MCH situation by any means, that one wasn't fun nor had good numbers, and a newcomer would probably find that everything is fine, the problem is when you have basically the same class from what will be 7+ years now, except with less skills, while every other job has some shining new skills this one is just there along for the ride, the job really needs a good prune(is that the right word?), rework of a lot of its skill and just a basic direction of what they actually want it to be, is it a fast hitter? is it only sometimes? it is more RNG that AST ever was? is it supposed to dance between stances frequently?

But yeah at this point if they add a disengage and remove RoF slow I'll take it and reluctantly shut up forever.

im not sure about being pruned, the job hasnt got many buttons as it is, pretty much equal to every other job currently. its only got a 6 button rotation, 3 button AoE, 2 GL Replenishers 5 Buffs 23 buttons Isnt really needing a buff, MCH is on 21 and i think dragoons on even higher. Just feels like its fighting its own theme at times haha

[Xau]

This is the biggest problem I perceive Monk to have. The entire class is built around Greased Lightning. A buff that shows its age. Other simliar maintenance buffs such as Blood of the Dragon, Enochian, and Huton have gotten better with age.QoL changes have effectively made them into one button that you hit once, maybe twice a fight. Greased Lightning however takes even longer to generate and has gotten even more punishing to lose, It's so much of a problem that it's had FOUR whole skills dedicated to maintaining it. With Shadowbringers it's gotten glaringly obvious that it's time for Greased Lightning to change.

they don't need to change gl at all, they just need to reduce the amount of gl maint skills, i mean, you can tell what 2 of them are not needed and they can be all mixed on 2 skills
perfect balance at 60s recast is one, and a reworked anatman is other
me solution for anatman is what instead of forcing you to stand still to keep your stacks(and form) frozen, it should just frozen them when used until your next action, and if you stand still, it generates chakras, one of the big issues of monk atm is what they are too spammy on downtime(meditation + form shift), and it gets tiring, and reworking anatman this way it could fix this issue as a whole
as for what to do whit riddle of earth and SSS?
riddle of earth could just a cd what gives you chakra when used, because other of the issues this job sufers is what we do not get enought chakras on boss battles
and dunno what to do whit SSS, i rarely use it at all, is really a very niche skill since the 99% of the time you can refresh gl by using a gcd skill or in the worst case anatman does it
imo their solution to avoid the tornado kick rotation is bad, if they wanted people to not use tornado kick on the rotation, either by making its recast timer longer, remove it altogether or make it into a ogcd to be used as part of your rotation free of gl cost, but instead they chosed the worst one, making perfect balance recast longer, making losing your gl stacks more punishing for no reason more than they do not want to change how tornado kick works

[reyre]

im not sure about being pruned, the job hasnt got many buttons as it is, pretty much equal to every other job currently. its only got a 6 button rotation, 3 button AoE, 2 GL Replenishers 5 Buffs 23 buttons Isnt really needing a buff, MCH is on 21 and i think dragoons on even higher. Just feels like its fighting its own theme at times haha

Lets see 5 buffs? RoF, BH ...and what else? we literally only have 3 offensive oGCD (lvl 50 we have 1, level 60 we have 3, level 7 we have 3, level 80 we have 3). 2 Gl replenishers? lies, RoE, PB, Anatman, SSS. right but we have 2 Gl replenishers...

However we did lose, IR, HF, SP and gained nothing to replace them in anyway, form or shape.

Also did MNK really needed an AOE rotation? Just because other class has its? Thing is its just a 3 button rotation, its even more boring and empty than before, the lack of oGCD make sit even more obvious.

[Rufalus]

My wishlist is (1) no slowdown on Riddle of Fire and maybe just combine RoF and Brotherhood into one button, (2) trait some of the old pugilist combo actions into more powerful flashier versions, (3) remove the three Fists of X stance buttons and just change those into temporary buffs like how PLD gets Sword Oath status from using a certain attack, (4) add some kind of massive flying kick attack like Yang uses in FF IV, (5) have some kind of condition that resets the recast on Elixir Field because that would be fun to blast more often, (6) chakra automatically refills over time when out of battle so you don't need to press meditate 5 times between encounters.

[KanameYuuki]

im not sure about being pruned, the job hasnt got many buttons as it is, pretty much equal to every other job currently. its only got a 6 button rotation, 3 button AoE, 2 GL Replenishers 5 Buffs 23 buttons Isnt really needing a buff, MCH is on 21 and i think dragoons on even higher. Just feels like its fighting its own theme at times haha

Oh god no, I don't mean even less offensive skills, I mean that if we get an actual fix to GL maintenance like Form Shift granting time refresh or a skill akin to Umbral Soul, then there is no need for RoE, Anatman, TK / 6SS or those could just be reworked, and the fist stances should just be either completely gone or gained as a trait.



From Proposed fixes to Monk thread.

anatman rework sugestion of mine:
make what when you use it it frozen your form and gl timers until your next action, and if you stand still it generates chakra stacks, seriusly, monk is too spammy on downtime

That is such a great idea, would love it if freezes and or refreshes twin snakes too.




And I've been thinking about this recently, we should really make a general Monk discussion just like JP players do on their forum, too many great ideas get lost with everyone making their own thread, even if a dev decides to check player feedback they have no way to read it all so spread out.

[Drayos]

Lets see 5 buffs? RoF, BH ...and what else? we literally only have 3 offensive oGCD (lvl 50 we have 1, level 60 we have 3, level 7 we have 3, level 80 we have 3). 2 Gl replenishers? lies, RoE, PB, Anatman, SSS. right but we have 2 Gl replenishers...

However we did lose, IR, HF, SP and gained nothing to replace them in anyway, form or shape.

Also did MNK really needed an AOE rotation? Just because other class has its? Thing is its just a 3 button rotation, its even more boring and empty than before, the lack of oGCD make sit even more obvious.

I ment monk doesn’t need further pruning overall. We do prolly need some more OGCDs or atleast more functionality to the ones we have.

TK is a OGCD. And could work out if it had a charge system and we actually had a reason to use it,

If it was on a 3 charge system, and each successful combo knocked time off its Cooldown and it wasn’t attached to GL I think it could work as our OGCD

Fist of fire, fist of wind, riddle of fire, riddle of earth reworked and leave us on 4 GL flatline.

Remove form shift. To stop this prepull crap, it’s a good idea but it’s just frustrating.

Let anatman immediately gain first stack of GL.

Put six star on OGCD to make it easier to precisely time it when we need it

I think monk would become a lot more fluid, be a lot faster and overall be more enjoyable and less frustrating.

I don’t think monks horrific, I think it’s just short of a few changes it needed. It’s had a alteration of play but they seem to have forgotten to remove or change a few mechanics that just don’t work in its new playstyle.