Reminder that war is still good.

[cjparmen]

honestly apart form maybe some dmg buffing, to make the WAR amazing again all it needs is NF to be able to be used solo as wall as maybe making the duration a little longer (10s at most), same thing for RI. and lastly give the WAR his huge fucking HP pool back.

hell i would be extremely happy with just the HP pool and the solo target NF.

[Thela]

honestly apart form maybe some dmg buffing, to make the WAR amazing again all it needs is NF to be able to be used solo as wall as maybe making the duration a little longer (10s at most), same thing for RI. and lastly give the WAR his huge fucking HP pool back.

hell i would be extremely happy with just the HP pool and the solo target NF.

You're not getting your HP pool back since that would make WAR instantly the best tank in the game. They removed the extra hp because they have unified the tanking model, all tanks have access to the same damage reduction which was not the case previously. Because of how the tank stances worked which is now history, the WAR needed a larger HP pool to compensate for not having the same dmg reduction built in.

[Kouhai]

If you think war is WEAK you are not playing it correctly. If you dont like how it PLAYS (bland, simple, memecleave is a lame job identity imo) then you will find a lot of supporters. But there are also a lot of people that seem to really enjoy the memecleave just as different groups prefer different versions of Drk over the years.

War performs fine. Its just not as much fun as it used to be for many.

I don't think war is weak, I strongly believe that anything that is "middle of the pack" like you say will be disregarded like everything that's been middle in every game ever that has had an "well rounded" thing. You know what "well rounded" classes and the like are used for? Starter classes, classes that you use to learn the game then switch to a new class and never look back at. Something that's not good at anything will never be used for anything, plain and simple. This is why each tank needs to have their own thing. You want magic mitigation? DRK. You want party mitigation? PLD. You want personal mitigation? GNB. You want dps? WAR. That's how it should be and that's how it's been since HW, sorta. In HW dps mattered a lot more so even if drk makes things a lot harder, people took it anyway. Though, in SB it really solidified this trifecta of tanks. Which is why in a lot of UwU clears people brought DRK/PLD because it was maximum defense and then DRK/WAR because it was maximum DPS. What it should be is DRK/PLD for maximum defense, GNB/WAR for max dps and a combination if you want a little more party or magic defense.

The issue now is because people think that "well rounded" classes are fine, they don't realize that in any content that matters, no one will take well rounded classes unless people are super adamant about taking it. Why do you think people really want to take DNC? it's the lowest dps by FAR of any dps? That's because it's pure support. Why are people taking DRG STILL after all these years? Because it's really high damage and also buffs people. Why are people not taking NIN anymore even though it's decent damage and decent support? Because it doesn't give enough of either anymore since there are classes that can do more of either if not both. WAR's utility was dps, now it's decent. War's mitigation for self was great, now it's decent. War's mitigation for the party was great with path but now it's only decent. Now you should realize that if you want the two tanks to maximize anything, you don't bring a war because you can bring something else and get more bang for your buck.

[BarretOblivion]

thats not an argument. Onslaught is fine.

Its funny how all the people complaining about Onslaught are people with no Warriors at lv 80

Also, gunbreaker rotation is really easy. I dont even main gunbreaker and I play decently without knowing anything in an somewhat optimal lv.

You wanna try that again buddy? WAR was the 2nd class I got to 80 and I stand by what I say. Unlike all other tank jobs:
You don't have a gap closer to use on cooldown with charges unless you are IRing.
You don't have a DoT.
And you have objectively the worst OT skill out of all the tanks. 20k heal means nothing when my MT is taking more damage.

[SpookyGhost]

I think the important thing to note here is that all the tanks are near enough to eachother that the only reason you'd prioritize one over the other is (maybe) the WF race and speed kills. All tanks can get the job done as they all have virtually the same toolkit now. Mostly what I've seen WARs complain about is the clunkiness of NF, Onslaught still being useless outside of the IR window, and a few people who don't like FC bot WAR (though that's not exactly a new complaint). I don't think it's really possible to argue that Onslaught shouldn't be adjusted - it's in a similar position to where Fracture used to be, where there's times where you want to use it but they're few and far between. As much as I personally enjoy having very few abilities to fill my hotbar with, I think that if we're going to have Onslaught exist it should at least fulfill a purpose outside of the IR window that isn't detrimental.

Also, since it's also been frequently brought up: NF's healing component for the other person targeted by it is a really weird idea. It feels like we're back in 2.0 all over again where they thought WAR's self-healing made up for it's complete lack of mitigation. I mean NF just as a 10% reduction is fine, and the healing you get for yourself in dungeons is good, but healing your target just seems kinda wasted.

[Argyle_Darkheart]

And you have objectively the worst OT skill out of all the tanks. 20k heal means nothing when my MT is taking more damage.

How exactly does a 20k heal "mean nothing?" Does Equilibrium "mean nothing?"

[BarretOblivion]

Not in a raid setting, more mitigation>than some small heal you get from your OT. More mitigation means you don't have to use as many cooldowns. 20k hp is the value of a what is basically 1-2 basic attacks from a boss and that is iff you set up for a "big heal" with inner chaos and a upheavel to weave so you hit enough to heal that much. Most of the time you aren't going to be setting up deliberately for a heal and it falls to about a 12k heal which is maybe 1 basic attack from a raid boss a 1/10th of your hp. Equilibrium is an OGCD that is an instant heal that can crit up to a 40k heal. Nascent flash ignores crit/direct hits and is a flat heal amount.
There is a difference between maybe a 1/6th (or 10/th) of your hp and 1/3rd.
Its not something you care about or think about because its not enough to consider. More mitigation for OT is what most people will consider to save cooldowns.

[msoltyspl]

since it's lost a lot of its mitigation

Did we really ?

- we have good old stuff - rampart, vengeance, reprisal, equilibrium (now freed from tank openers)
- we have ToB now merged with now gone convalescence (so +hp and +heal) freed from minor dps boosting roles and memeheaval
- we have refurbed raw intuition - now on super short CD, flat 20% mitigation, with no cons (besides sharing CD with nascent)
- we gained nascent, god tier for trash pulls and somewhat useful for single targets
- we gained arm's length which doubles as quite good yet another mitigation for trash pulls

We (all tanks) lost anticipation (which statistically was not particularly amazing +30% chance for parry to happen) and awareness which had somewhat niche use in some scenarios (and was often paired with old version of raw intuition during trash pulls).

IMHO it doesn't feel like we lost anything relevant.

[AegisKiddo]

WAR along with SCH was one of the best and most fun playing jobs in Heavensward. Since then SE have back peddled on the fun aspect and complexity of jobs in this game.

I was hoping when Stormblood hit, they would keep what made the combat so fun; instead they chose the route of homogenization and removed buttons we use on our hotbar and the synergy between them.

War in Heavensward was a work of art, now it is nothing more then a one button tank with low damage output compared to other tanks.

[Argyle_Darkheart]

More mitigation for OT is what most people will consider to save cooldowns.

No, not necessarily. Mitigation is only strictly preferable over healing if it's necessary in order to survive comfortably. Otherwise, the superior option is whatever most reduces healing requirements, and Nascent Flash can and will often outperform the other OT support skills in this fashion. Now, whether the healers you're playing with can or will adequately take advantage of this is another matter.