Reminder that war is still good.

[Kouhai]

Everyone is comparing warrior to the other classes and yes, war does need a buff. idk how but you can either increase the damage buff from storm's eye or increase the potencies of the main gcd. Regardless, war has gotten a lot of subtle buffs in ShB. That being not having to stance dance to use equilibrium, thrill of battle giving conva which buffs equilbirium and storm's path heals. Nascent flash which is god tier in big pulls in dungeons, which I do agree you need an option to be able to target yourself so it's less clunky to use. Also inner chaos is a guaranteed DHC which can be saved and used at your discretion up to 30 seconds, which I also want it to not be a dps loss to use it in inner release.

Personally, I find war different and harder to play since it's lost a lot of its mitigation, but it's still really good. For example, here's me soloing Thordan EX: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=il0yD15el3E

There are bursts parts that I don't believe you can consistently do it as any other tank. Not only that, but holmgang's application of hitting the button is really fast and you can barely get holmgang up in time before the heavenly heel after the spear.

Personally, I do believe war needs a buff, but people are blowing it way out of the water. Give it a potency buff of maim and eye/path to be like, 320 and 440 respectively. Just so it can compete with the average gcd of every other tank. Nascent flash should also be able to be placed on yourself like GNBs skill Aurora. Also, make it not a dps loss to use inner chaos in inner release. Give inner chaos like a bonus 590 potency so it accounts for the fell cleave you would be doing, just as an example; it doesn't have to be that extreme.

TL;DR stop bashing warrior so hard, it's still really good when you look at it by itself before and after ShB release. Also it's going to get buffed sometime when either NM or savage comes out like it did during Stormblood.

[NyneSwordz]

It's not bad. It just feels clunkier. I agree that Nascent Flash is a great, albiet clunky, ability. Works well enough with macros though. An Inner Chaos with NF heals for 17-18k, which is definitely not bad at all. For PvP it ought to definitely be self targetable, but for PvE, I think increasing the window or changing it to restore health on the next 3 gauge dps moves would be great and make it easier to set up and use.

I wish Onslaught didn't cost rage, but it's not gamebreaking.

Holmgang shouldn't self bind in PvP, but that's another story.

Oh, and having to prep a single target combo in order to get eye buff for aoe is kind of annoying too. Yes, its a self buff and not a slashing debuff so it's easier to keep up, but in dungeon runs, it's still a bit of a challenge to keep it up throughout. This is really annoying, because most of time you're going to aoe-ing monster packs, and to have to overpower and then mythril tempest to grab all the monsters, then single target combo one, then go back to overpower is a little clunky. But... I can live with it I guess?

Would be cool if Onslaught gave eye buff for 10 seconds. That way eye is easier to keep up at all times, and it helps in situations where you have enough eye duration to last an IR window, but not enough to reapply eye with the single target combo - you can delay onslaught to near the end to buy yourself enough time to get the single target combo in for the full 30 second buff.

Anywho, I really do feel War is okay. It just has some clunkiness to it.

And I'm not too worried about dps. I figure it's close enough to other tanks, and high enough for me to feel like I'm doing good damage. And Dps is easily fixable and I have confidence it'll be addressed. I'm more concerned with these annoyances in gameplay that affect the fun I have with the job.

[BarretOblivion]

WAR is no longer the "risky tank" or the "damage tank" as its damage is the 2nd lowest of the tanks. Yes, you can buff it but I doubt too many players will be interested in playing WAR anymore. WAR is the simplest class to play to a fault. It feels like a "half" job where the only difference between a good WAR and a bad WAR is if they got their 5 fell cleaves during IR with upheavel. Wow so engaging. What kept WAR fine in SB was the tank stance dancing of Inner Beast. That aspect of WAR complexity died, with basically any depth to the job with it. Nascent flash is only good in dungeons, its the worst OT support skill by far with the lowest mitigation and a mediocre heal even if you set up Inner chaos with it for maybe a 20k total heal of hp for your MT after 2-3 gcds.

You don't do anything besides keep your buff up, hit upheavel on cooldown unless IR is coming up, and then fell cleave/chaos. Wow, so engaging. Compare that to the other options you have to tank with. Gunbreaker optimal rotation is pretty complex needing to make sure you don't break your charge combos and over charging. Paladin you have flight of fight rotation, requiscat window, as well as their new version of "fell cleave". Drk is heavy resource management intensive and yes it has problems but its more engaging to play. WAR right now is the big dumb idiot class now that "buffs" aren't what they need, they need SKILLS. Compare how full your hotbar was in SB to lvl 80 ShB, its got smaller, not stay the same. We got 1 new skill, while the other "chaos" skills are one time upgraded fell cleave/decimates.

Beast guage needs more things to use, like maybe a DoT to add some thought to the job. Completely remove the beast guage cost for onslaught because no other job has their gap closer tied to their job guage. Nascent flash cure potency cranked up to make it more applealing to use since its mitigation is on the low side.
Those are some suggestions.

[Izsha]

I havent seen hardly anyone claim war isnt good. The only complaint i see about warrior lately are mostly about its playstyle being bland memecleave spam, and to simple. Its by far the slowest playing (fewest actions and lowest apm) tank with the most idiotproof play. The other half of the 'complaints' are about nascent flash being cumbersome to actually use. You are virtually forced to macro it when using a controller and thats pretty sad.

Very few people are actually saying war is bad. It does fine damage, mitigation is well rounded, holmgang is still great, and its support is solid. Its perfectly effective as a tank and its only a tiny minority that think otherwise and there is often a bit lacking in their explanations anyway. Its just a little bland/to simple.

[Inuk9]

WAR is no longer the "risky tank" or the "damage tank" as its damage is the 2nd lowest of the tanks. Yes, you can buff it but I doubt too many players will be interested in playing WAR anymore. WAR is the simplest class to play to a fault. It feels like a "half" job where the only difference between a good WAR and a bad WAR is if they got their 5 fell cleaves during IR with upheavel. Wow so engaging. What kept WAR fine in SB was the tank stance dancing of Inner Beast. That aspect of WAR complexity died, with basically any depth to the job with it. Nascent flash is only good in dungeons, its the worst OT support skill by far with the lowest mitigation and a mediocre heal even if you set up Inner chaos with it for maybe a 20k total heal of hp for your MT after 2-3 gcds.

You don't do anything besides keep your buff up, hit upheavel on cooldown unless IR is coming up, and then fell cleave/chaos. Wow, so engaging. Compare that to the other options you have to tank with. Gunbreaker optimal rotation is pretty complex needing to make sure you don't break your charge combos and over charging. Paladin you have flight of fight rotation, requiscat window, as well as their new version of "fell cleave". Drk is heavy resource management intensive and yes it has problems but its more engaging to play. WAR right now is the big dumb idiot class now that "buffs" aren't what they need, they need SKILLS. Compare how full your hotbar was in SB to lvl 80 ShB, its got smaller, not stay the same. We got 1 new skill, while the other "chaos" skills are one time upgraded fell cleave/decimates.

Beast guage needs more things to use, like maybe a DoT to add some thought to the job. Completely remove the beast guage cost for onslaught because no other job has their gap closer tied to their job guage. Nascent flash cure potency cranked up to make it more applealing to use since its mitigation is on the low side.
Those are some suggestions.

thats not an argument. Onslaught is fine.

Its funny how all the people complaining about Onslaught are people with no Warriors at lv 80

Also, gunbreaker rotation is really easy. I dont even main gunbreaker and I play decently without knowing anything in an somewhat optimal lv.

[Kabooa]

thats not an argument. Onslaught is fine.

Its funny how all the people complaining about Onslaught are people with no Warriors at lv 80

Also, gunbreaker rotation is really easy. I dont even main gunbreaker and I play decently without knowing anything in an somewhat optimal lv.

It plays like old machinist. You have your WildMercy window.

And you shove all your !@#^!@$#%^!@%!@ @!# @!%!@@!# into it.

[Lyth]

WAR is fine.

If anything, Holmgang's recast is still way too short for an invuln without a penalty, and Shake should probably be brought into line with Divine Veil at 10%. From a damage standpoint, I think you're going to find that when people actually start coordinating with TA and burst windows more seriously, in fights with actual mechanics, WAR's numbers are going to be inflated back to the top. They're trying to balance burst vs. sustained dps.

And we can do without another expansion where WAR is mandatory.

[Kouhai]

WAR is fine.

If anything, Holmgang's recast is still way too short for an invuln without a penalty, and Shake should probably be brought into line with Divine Veil at 10%. From a damage standpoint, I think you're going to find that when people actually start coordinating with TA and burst windows more seriously, in fights with actual mechanics, WAR's numbers are going to be inflated back to the top. They're trying to balance burst vs. sustained dps.

And we can do without another expansion where WAR is mandatory.

Holmgang's penalty is that it's useless up until you go to 1 hp and that you can't be ignored either because the first auto attack to hit you after it ends will kill you. Shake is 12% of the target's hp, where as divine veil is 10% of the pld's hp which is obviously better so shake is actually strictly worse than divine veil. Also, the statistics on fflogs *is in fact* WITH all the same buffs war has so even if it gets all the buffs from trick, brotherhood, rdm's buff, devotion, all that stuff. It STILL is below the other tanks, which is an obvious red flag. Source: https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statisti...s=Any&sample=7

War's utility is DPS. The reason why you would bring a war was because of more dps. Now there's no reason to bring a war if it doesn't have it's utility. You'd bring a war in HW because it was a dps loss for the nin to put up slashing. In SB it was a dps loss to not bring a slashing person in general and mnk/drg was really good, so you would bring a war. Now war has the least party utility, the tie for least damage, and it's self mitigation isn't even that great compared to other classes. It's invuln is really it's only benefit at the moment. This is why people want warrior to be top dps because if you bring a war, you want more dps.

[Izsha]

Thats a lot of exaggeration. War does not have the worst party support. Its better than drks. Below pld. Depending on the fight could be above or below gun.

War is middling in everything except immunity timer. It has more tank buster mit than pld but less fluff mit than pld. Has better phy mit than drk but worse magic mit. Better magic mit than gun but worse phy fluff. It has general all purpose mitigation. It has 'low' damage in a time when all tanks are EXTREMELY close in damage. The gap is onconsequential. It has middle of the pack party support. And still has the lowest cd immunity.

There is literally nothing wrong with wars performance. Period. It could use some qol improvements to nascent flash to make it physically easier to use, especially on controller and perhaps a self target option for solo. The world wouldnt end if it got a miniscule bump to potencies, but war isnt doa wothout it.

If you think war is WEAK you are not playing it correctly. If you dont like how it PLAYS (bland, simple, memecleave is a lame job identity imo) then you will find a lot of supporters. But there are also a lot of people that seem to really enjoy the memecleave just as different groups prefer different versions of Drk over the years.

War performs fine. Its just not as much fun as it used to be for many.

[Argyle_Darkheart]

Nascent flash is only good in dungeons, its the worst OT support skill by far with the lowest mitigation and a mediocre heal even if you set up Inner chaos with it for maybe a 20k total heal of hp for your MT after 2-3 gcds.

Nascent Flashing while MTing is a thing, and a significant one; there's nearly no situation where you should use Raw Intuition over Nascent Flash right now.