Summoner likes and dislikes, an attempt to compilate thoughts on Summoner.

[Trensharo]

Summoner is fine. I guess this is not going to be a popular opinion, but I (re-)learn to play.

1. It's fine, for you... that's an opinion, yes...

2. Odd, considering what you did or did not do is a fact, not an opinion...

3. This infers that others should just do what you did... "(re-)learn to play."

But you seem to take exception that someone was able to read between the lines of a post that was worded - badly - in an attempt to be sarcastic while still giving you an "easy out" when someone called you out on it...

Yes, and I stated what I like and dislike. Also, I wasn't telling "people to learn to play", I was telling "I" learn to play - which is my only input in the discussion. I have nothing else to add.

Yes, you were pretty much telling people to L2P - just tactfully stated (and badly so).

L2P is useless, anyways, since this game's gameplay is all about muscle memory. T here is very little in-combat decision making at play, other than dodging mechanics which go off like clockwork... Anyone who spends enough time will get it down, simply due to repetition.

The issue is not people not knowing how to play it (since you can literally read a guide and execute it verbatim), but how it actually feels to play it. The class design is off, and the gameplay cadence isn't fun to deal with. There is too much skill bloat, and too many "non-factor" buttons to press, that are made obligatory by making other things dependent upon them.

A good example is offloading Ruin IV procs from pet attacks to Egi Assault I/II.

They have forced the class to plaly this way by forcing everything to be independent so that people press all the buttons they have added into the game... Not because it ends up being a nice flow, but because they simply want you to use what they have thrown in the soup pot. Whoever is in charge of SMN class design is clueless.

Egis are bad because they choose to do things the hard way, instead of just taking the obvious course of action that would rectify numerous problems.

SMN feels like a melee class with all of the negatives of a caster, and none of the benefits of a melee... and then some.

[Super_Smiley]

Can we have Trance merge with Summon Bahamut/Phoenix and Deathflare merge with Enkindle Bahamut please?

[Taranok]

Can we have Trance merge with Summon Bahamut/Phoenix and Deathflare merge with Enkindle Bahamut please?

Better yet, merge DP and DWT, make the act of ENTERING DWT cause you to instantly deathflare (sorry, DWT will need a target), and then remove summon bahamut outright, while merging enkindle bahamut with the pet enkindle.

[Wyti]

I mostly really likes the new Summoner.
I like how busy the class feels to play, and that it tries to put more focus into our summons than ourselves.

The only downsides for me are small QoL changes, like the delay when Bahamut / Phoenix are summoned before they will use their attack, or the feeling of driving a truck around when they are both supposed to have a 100yalm range but still follow you around instead of acting.

I would also appreciate if more potency was shifted (or outright buffed) to our egi action, it fells pretty terrible to use an egi assault and it barely inflicting more than 3k damage, like a fester without our dots is doing more...

[Taranok]

I mostly really likes the new Summoner.
I like how busy the class feels to play, and that it tries to put more focus into our summons than ourselves.

The only downsides for me are small QoL changes, like the delay when Bahamut / Phoenix are summoned before they will use their attack, or the feeling of driving a truck around when they are both supposed to have a 100yalm range but still follow you around instead of acting.

I would also appreciate if more potency was shifted (or outright buffed) to our egi action, it fells pretty terrible to use an egi assault and it barely inflicting more than 3k damage, like a fester without our dots is doing more...

Right now, Ifrit is 50% potency of listed values (E.G. 80 potency listed is 40 potency relative), and Garuda is 75 or 80% potency (so a 40 potency attack is 33 potency instead). Ifrit is still our top damage pet by a fair amount, but the reason why Fester hits harder without DoTs is because 2 egi assaults on Ifrit will do identical damage to a dotless fester. Or nearly identical.

This is among many reasons why Egi Assaults feel so bad. It's basically 100 potency split over 2 separate cooldowns twice per minute whose sole purpose is effectively to get ruin 4 stacks. And this is also why you should literally never use Titan outside of solo content where you need the barriers, because the pet damage hierarchy is Ifrit > Garuda > Titan.

[Akimitsu]

Been maining SMN since the days of Melusine where I kinda got forced on the job at the time but took a liking to it. I always felt like this job had no real identity and now with Firebird trance the whole thing feels like a missed opportunity, with which I'm not going to bother anymore unless they fix it entirely.DW trance and summon Bahamut absolutely need to go the same route as Firebird trance and be combined into one (flare breath please make it happen).
Ideally I would either remove egis entirely and have the rotation divided in 3 demi primal summons, the first one being either a cosmetic or utility choice between demi Garuda/Ifrit/Titan. And if egis must stay just have the demi Primal corresponding to the currently summoned egi take its place during the first of the 3 trances.

[ShadowNyx3]

I don't understand the very common desire for Bahamut to be merged into DWT. It feels like a concession from Summoners who are just fed up with not being able to move and the clunkiness of having to clip the full duration of the current DWT just to get into the Bahamut phase outside of the opener.

If we're going to improve Bahamut, do we really just want him to be a mirror for the Phoenix phase? Where is the fun in that? A unique Bahamut and a unique Phoenix phase is going to feel a lot better than flip-flopping demi skins every so often. How about we fix the problem of Ruin IVs being required for optimal weaving by trimming some oGCDs, then we add a damage boost to summoning Bahamut that promotes pooling the Ruin IVs to maximize the burst in that window, thereby allowing BAHAMUT, the king of SUMMONS, to actually flex his might.

At the same time, perhaps we should be thinking outside the box on what DWT basically allows us to do, with a Tri-disaster reset and instant casts, wouldn't it feel much more rewarding to completely separate the DWT from this ridiculously rigid one minute cycle and use it as a means for movement and instant DoT refreshing? Perhaps we could even tie it back into Aetherflow actions to make the job have a sense of cohesion again? A Black Mage does not need to use Triplecast or Swiftcast outside of their opener unless they need to move or correct a rotational mistake, and a Red Mage has guaranteed movement between every dual cast as well as a reserve swiftcast they don't need to save for a raise, so I would argue that Summoner needs to have a back pocket movement tactic as well or else there's simply no balance on job mobility.

It's good that many people want to see some changes and improvements made to Summoner. I cannot argue against the sentiment that the job has an identity crisis and should probably move completely away from the egi pets at this point based on its trajectory and the obvious problems created by trying to keep them around in some form. I wouldn't go so far as to say that spells like Bio don't make sense on FFXIV's Summoner, as most iterations of Summoner in the history of FF have had Black and sometimes White magic abilities on top of being able to Summon, but there's definitely no need to strap the job to pets if the design philosophy is trying to make the Summons more prominent.

I hope that at some point in the near future, Summoner can break free of what is holding it back and become the true Summoner many people have wanted it to always be and a job that still feels right for the people who have made it their identity over the last six years.

[Neela]

Ifrit isn’t our strongest egi atm - it lost its AA and it pots scale differently than Rudas or Titans - therefor and cause of pot-adjustments he lost around 66% of his dmg in general compared to SB. Don’t trust the tooltips they are garbage.

Actually Ruda is the strongest egi atm - several smn did the testing > there is also a thread in this forum bout egis.

[Milea]

Ifrit isn’t our strongest egi atm - it lost its AA and it pots scale differently than Rudas or Titans - therefor and cause of pot-adjustments he lost around 66% of his dmg in general compared to SB. Don’t trust the tooltips they are garbage.

Actually Ruda is the strongest egi atm - several smn did the testing > there is also a thread in this forum bout egis.

Ifrit hits harder with his inital assaults by a small margin.
Garuda outpaces if an enemy is left in the aoe or said enemy jumps around.

I concluded this by using only egi assaults on the dummy.

Garuda aoe was like 1500~initial damage and 6 ticks of around 800 damage.

That one move is what puts Gardua over since garuda auto is lesser and garuda egi assault 1 is lesser.
But that is around 5000-6000 damage.

Then when adds spawn, ifrit has to move around but garuda can instanly change target.

Idk why top smn still using Ifrit.

[XenabelleS]

Two biggest issues would be :

1) Loss of Titan as a tank has rendered this class nearly unusuable in the open world. I died to a FATE in Lakeland because I did one AOE spell and got all the agro and no way to heal. Titan's shield is useless. Physic is useless.

2) Way too many buttons! For AOE, you have 7 buttons : Outburst, Painflare, Bane, Deathflare, the AOE energy drain, Garuda's 2 Egi Assaults. That is just too many.