Summoner likes and dislikes, an attempt to compilate thoughts on Summoner.

[Trensharo]

The issue with pet damage is that everyone in this game is convinced that they are more skilled just because they press more buttons... SE caves to that mentality, so they can't just boost Egi auto attack damage, for example, as that would just have everyone complaining about SMN DPS being too high because their pets do too much "AFK damage." As a result, they've resorted to tying more and more things to more and more manual button presses... You're reaping the results.

EGI Assault I/II
Ahk Morn
Bahamut not attacking unless you spam Ruin III's
etc.

On the flip side, they cannot really increase nuke damage directly, because the actual balancing and differentiation across the caster DPS are relatively weak (as they all start to feel like Wizards, frankly).

A DoTs focused-class isn't't a good idea in this game since most non-raid content is run by mass pulling everything. A DoT-focused class is going to be worthless for most casual players... Especially without an actual Tank Egi to keep MOBs off of it, since it won't be bursting things down. Even many of the MSQ stuff are basically solo DPS checked. Don't kill the stuff in time, 9999999 damage, thank you and try again.

If we're going to be frank, this class was badly designed from Day One, and only put in to fill the EQ/WoW Mage/Necro/Warlock niche for players who like playing caster pet classes (as those have been staple in MMORPGs since the beginning). It is a quota job, and they don't have a clue on what they're doing with it - which is why every expansion comes with another "rework" needing a major patch to "fix" it.

And a 120sec Recast for a 15sec 5% damage buff is awful.

[Taranok]

The RDM rotation isn't really that "simplistic," though, it's just intuitive. There is still enough going on in there, and some decision making actually built into it - unlike SMN. IMO, BLM has a simpler rotation than RDM.

BLM has the simplest rotation of every class in the game, short of comparing it to the DPS rotation of a healer, which is just a bad faith argument. Even tanks are more complicated. All of its difficulty comes from trying to find a way to fit its rotation into a boss' encounter design, which is where it gets truly interesting. This is also what catapults BLM up to the hardest rotation in the game.

I describe RDM as a very simple job full of a ton of micro-decisions that, while individually meaningless, add up to be incredibly meaningful over the course of a fight. And yes, it's intuitive.

And Summoner is the old Feral Druid John Madden rotation, where you have a ton of micro-decisions, even one mistake anywhere will throw everything to madness, and the rotation is just utter chaos with no intuitive flow even when it's not going to hell in a hand basket.

And a 120sec Recast for a 15sec 5% damage buff is awful.

180 second recast. It's 3 minutes, not 2.

[lulunami]

This current iteration of SMN is going to be even more unpopular than the 4.0 launch version of SMN. It is too obtuse and not intuitive to play for the majority of players. To play casually, SMN is probably fine. However, for players trying to optimize every GCD and oGCD, it seems to be an act of frustration. Not to mention, dying is very punishing on SMN as well.

Square-Enix, please fix SMN in the next 5.05 patch!

[Nemekh]

It's nowhere near as bad as 4.0 launch. But it's not exactly much better either. Certain elements are good, others could be much better. The key fault being that the job is in one of the least cohesive states it has ever been in.

I'm working on a video detailing my review of the current state of things that I'll hopefully get out soon.

[Trensharo]

180 second recast. It's 3 minutes, not 2.

Getting tired of people not reading, but trying to "clap back" like they have been ordained by SE.

My mention of a 120 sec recast is a response to the proposed change in the post that I responded to.

Stop the idiocy.

Post directly above mine:

Devotion timer lowered to 120s recast.

No, I didn't quote it in my response, because I don't need to quote a post directly above mine. Get up to speed before the kneejerk...

WoW's "rotations" are more priority systems, and are a lot more intuitive than much of what's in FFXIV. The combat pacing is different. The encounter designs are different. The content design is different. It is not the same thing, and WoW isn't the only MMORPG that does or has ever existed. Stop using it to scapegoat SE's bad class design. Feral and Summoner aren't even remotely comparable classes - even if they were in the same game.

Additionally... Playing a melee class that has instant skill activation, no spell travel latency, basically doesn't suffer a movement penalty at all (just a ranged penalty, if mechanics force them out), doesn't have to deal with buggy/glitchy/non-responsive pets and pet hand-off mechanics (Egi Assaults, Enkindle, Devotion, etc.), and doesn't have to [constantly] weave 2-4 button presses in the span of one GCD feels completely different to play than a ranged "pet" caster - even if it has a lot of buttons to press. WoW also doesn't have oGCD spamming like FFXIV, and better ability queueing. The classes are not designed around set rotations that you can just put in a PDF file and tell everyone to "emulate" verbatim under almost all conditions. There isn't that much decision making here, beyond "what mechanics are coming up, and what raid buffs are going to be fired up soon." Some of the changes are actually designed to decrease the amount of decision making needed (i.e. making Miasma and Bio the same Duration, Aether changes, etc.).

Which is why I made the comment about SMN feeling like a melee with none of the benefits of a melee, but all of the detriments of a caster - in another thread.

WoW Demonology, after the LK revamp and in some later expansions, was considerably more complex than Affliction or [ESPECIALLY] Destruction - but it was NEVER this clunky. It had just as many buttons to press... There are just core differences in the combat systems that allow for openings for SE to misstep and end up with something that is far clunkier than intended (over and over again, apparently).

Conjuror and Necromancer in EverQuest 2 - both master classes in pet class design, IMHO - and never felt like this despite having TONS of things to do - more than FFXIV SMN... and the pets felt like absolute powerhouses (40-55% of damage, depending on class - more for Conji and less for Necro). And they still got Temp Pets (so Bahamut and Phoenix doesn't really feel much different, to me).

But if you're only played WoW and this, I can see how you can get some things confused. The market is a lot bigger than that, though, and SE had more than enough precedent to not mess this up... even back in 2013 - nevermind the middle of 2019.

[Taranok]

I hate to break it to you, but when you didn't quote someone directly and the post is on a completely different page, it's going to confuse people when you reference something blindly.