Duty Finder Roulette Etiquette

[ForteNightshade]

"If you pull it, you tank it" is a common held stance across the entire MMO genre. It's not unique to FFXIV or WoW or EQ2. If you're not the tank, and you're pulling, you're not being a team player.

I know. It doesn't make it any less silly of a mindset. And one could argue the tank isn't being a team player since their response to once instance of a DPS pulling is to let them die. Again, all you've done is make the run slower and/or put more work on the healer.

[CazzT]

I know. It doesn't make it any less silly of a mindset. And one could argue the tank isn't being a team player since their response to once instance of a DPS pulling is to let them die. Again, all you've done is make the run slower and/or put more work on the healer.

One could argue that, but it would be false argument. The tank is fulfilling their role by tanking. If the DPS are pulling, they are not following their role, and thus are not being a team player. Accidental pulls, I'll grab the adds. If I see DPS or Healer intentionally run ahead and pull, I will switch to single target and let the adds kill whoever pulled. Don't pull for me unless I know you. Ask me politely to pull more and I'll be glad to. But if you try to do my job for me, you get to try and fail at it.

[NessaWyvern]

If I see DPS or Healer intentionally run ahead and pull, I will switch to single target and let the adds kill whoever pulled. Don't pull for me unless I know you. Ask me politely to pull more and I'll be glad to. But if you try to do my job for me, you get to try and fail at it.

But what if a healer pulls, and nobody dies because the healer can manage?
I've done this a few times when mobs hit like a wet noodle, but the tank refuses to pull more than one pack at a time.
I don't extra pull if I know it would kill someone though.

I think that if you're not pulling the full amount that you can reasonably manage, you're not doing your role fully as a tank.
Just like if you can't heal the tank despite the tank using CDs, due to not using all your abilities and mana management, you're not doing your full job as a healer.
And just like if a dps doesn't use AoE abilities when there's multiple mobs, you're not doing your full job as a dps.

Theres a bit more to tanking than just pulling some mobs and keeping aggro on them.

[ForteNightshade]

One could argue that, but it would be false argument. The tank is fulfilling their role by tanking. If the DPS are pulling, they are not following their role, and thus are not being a team player. Accidental pulls, I'll grab the adds. If I see DPS or Healer intentionally run ahead and pull, I will switch to single target and let the adds kill whoever pulled. Don't pull for me unless I know you. Ask me politely to pull more and I'll be glad to. But if you try to do my job for me, you get to try and fail at it.

See, this is precisely where you come across less of a team player. The DPS or healer aren't trying to sabotage the run but simply make it go faster. Even if they shouldn't necessarily run off and pull, you can tell them afterwards not to. By deliberately switching to single targeting, you're not only slowing down the run but simply being petty. In this instance, you've caused more problems than anyone else.

[CazzT]

See, this is precisely where you come across less of a team player. The DPS or healer aren't trying to sabotage the run but simply make it go faster.

That's exactly what they're doing, regardless if that's their intent. That doesn't make me less of a team player. You're trying to paint me as the bad guy because I expect the team to work as a team.

Even if they shouldn't necessarily run off and pull, you can tell them afterwards not to. By deliberately switching to single targeting, you're not only slowing down the run but simply being petty. In this instance, you've caused more problems than anyone else.

Why should it be necessary for me to explain to someone that they shouldn't be doing something they aren't supposed to be doing?

And if they weren't doing something they shouldn't be doing, there wouldn't be more problems. You seem to have this need to blame the wrong people. You don't blame the police for the crime when they arrest the criminal.

[HyoMinPark]

That's exactly what they're doing, regardless if that's their intent. That doesn't make me less of a team player. You're trying to paint me as the bad guy because I expect the team to work as a team.

It does when you sink to single-targeting mobs and letting them kill the person who pulled them. I get annoyed when people pull for me as well, and I usually tell them to stop. But I don’t sink down to petty levels of “well, I’m going to let them die now”. Because that’s the exact opposite of being a team player. And, not to mention, it just creates more work for the healer because they have to Raise the dead player now, and Raises can be costly. As someone who heals quite a bit, this kind of behavior gets really annoying.

Why sink below when you can just rise above (and later dismiss them if it really becomes that big of a problem).

Why should it be necessary for me to explain to someone that they shouldn't be doing something they aren't supposed to be doing?

To try and avoid future instances of the behavior in the dungeon? To provide a semblance of effort at communication and cooperation?

[ForteNightshade]

That's exactly what they're doing, regardless if that's their intent. That doesn't make me less of a team player. You're trying to paint me as the bad guy because I expect the team to work as a team.

Why should it be necessary for me to explain to someone that they shouldn't be doing something they aren't supposed to be doing?

And if they weren't doing something they shouldn't be doing, there wouldn't be more problems. You seem to have this need to blame the wrong people. You don't blame the police for the crime when they arrest the criminal.

I hope your shoulder isn't too hurt given how far you had to reach for that, simply put, horrendous analogy. Seriously. You are likening someone else pulling a couple mobs to a crime. Okay. Allow me to use your own analogy. Since you said you would purposely single target mobs to ensure the DPS or healer dies. The equivalent here would be the police beating someone or allowing them to be beaten up to "teach them a lesson." Last I checked, that's frowned on in society.

Putting aside ridiculous poor analogies, you are, again, trying to inflate the situation. A DPS or healer pulling extra cannot sabotage the run... unless you allow it. In fact, if it's the healer pulling and you let them die. Well, you and you alone guaranteed a wipe. Or do you make an exception if a healer pulls? If you do... now you're applying a double standard. Regardless of how you spin it, letting someone die as a petty "gotcha!" just puts more work on everyone else. Which is why I suggested telling them not to first.

[CazzT]

It does when you sink to single-targeting mobs and letting them kill the person who pulled them. I get annoyed when people pull for me as well, and I usually tell them to stop. But I don’t sink down to petty levels of “well, I’m going to let them die now”. Because that’s the exact opposite of being a team player. And, not to mention, it just creates more work for the healer because they have to Raise the dead player now, and Raises can be costly. As someone who heals quite a bit, this kind of behavior gets really annoying.

It's not. Period. This has been explained ad nauseum by multiple people. I'm tired of arguing. If you need to make me out as the villain, that's on you.

Why sink below when you can just rise above (and later dismiss them if it really becomes that big of a problem).

To try and avoid future instances of the behavior in the dungeon? To provide a semblance of effort at communication and cooperation?

It's not sinking below anything. There's nothing to rise above. If you have a team and people on that team are not doing what they're supposed to be doing, why are you expecting the rest of the team to fix the problems caused by the person who screwed up? Who is the person in the wrong here? You're going to say I am, if not both. But that's wrong. I am not to blame because they screwed up, no matter what my reaction to their screw up is. By painting me as the bad guy, you're defending the screw up of the person who didn't do their job. And that's wrong.

I hope your shoulder isn't too hurt given how far you had to reach for that, simply put, horrendous analogy. Seriously. You are likening someone else pulling a couple mobs to a crime. Okay. Allow me to use your own analogy. Since you said you would purposely single target mobs to ensure the DPS or healer dies. The equivalent here would be the police beating someone or allowing them to be beaten up to "teach them a lesson." Last I checked, that's frowned on in society.

Putting aside ridiculous poor analogies, you are, again, trying to inflate the situation. A DPS or healer pulling extra cannot sabotage the run... unless you allow it. In fact, if it's the healer pulling and you let them die. Well, you and you alone guaranteed a wipe. Or do you make an exception if a healer pulls? If you do... now you're applying a double standard. Regardless of how you spin it, letting someone die as a petty "gotcha!" just puts more work on everyone else. Which is why I suggested telling them not to first.

I learned three things from this post.

1 - You don't know how analogies work.
2 - You haven't been reading what I've written.
3 - You want to defend the person screwing up.

Due this, there is no point in replying to you further. I have clearly explained everything. At this point, we're going in circles and we will get nowhere. You're eager to paint me as the bad guy and defend the person who isn't doing their job right. I get the feeling you're one of the people who does that.

[ForteNightshade]

I learned three things from this post.

1 - You don't know how analogies work.
2 - You haven't been reading what I've written.
3 - You want to defend the person screwing up.

Due this, there is no point in replying to you further. I have clearly explained everything. At this point, we're going in circles and we will get nowhere. You're eager to paint me as the bad guy and defend the person who isn't doing their job right. I get the feeling you're one of the people who does that.

I understand analogies just fine. Yours was simply bad.

And, no. I would to chastise both of you for causing unnecessary drama all because you wanted to teach someone a lesson. That is the very definition of being petty. I get it, you're annoyed but at least owe the fact you're also in the wrong. Being a team player also involves trying to diffuse a situation. Asking the DPS or Healer not to pull for you takes far less effort than purposely causing a wipe or giving the healer additional work. I am "painting" you as the "bad guy" because you're making things worse for no one's benefit but your own smug pettiness. Not exactly a team player.