Square Enix, please think about both Casual AND Hardcore crafters..

[Granyala]

Well, I’m glad someone finally admitted it lol. I wish people would just be honest and say “i dont like old crafting cuz its hard and i like easy crafting” so I appreciate your honesty!

I leveled crafters in ARR.
I leveled crafters in HW.

What turned me away from highend crafting was the timesink around materia melding and desynthesis.
Crafting was NOT difficult by any stretch, yes RNG could screw you sideways but that's just that: RNG. As a player there wasn't much I could do to compensate. hell there was even a web based crafting simulator available, so you could try rotations and stuff w/o sacrificing materials in the process.
Doesn't get much easier than that.

Tedious & time consuming != difficult and most certainly != entertainment for me.

In SB I crafted the more highend stuff because melding my gear became much more feasible with a nice and easy supply via scrip. Esp cheal IV materia made a world of difference in being able to attain the necessary stats w/o grinding my heart out.

The crafting process itself didn't change that much, imho. It was just way easier to kick any RNG influence to the curb.

To reiterate, since you seem to like the truth only the way you want it: crafting was not "too hard". It was "too time consuming" and ultimately not worth the effort. My RL time is limited, I do not like when games deliberately waste it.

I disagree with the idea that (for crafting only) RNG never equals a challenge. Yes, it could. A good crafter, who understood how to use their abilities and how the entire system worked together, could either rise above bad RNG or use good RNG to their advantage.

Only in a very limited way. Reacting to condition procs and maybe switching to a backup rotation.

In practice, you would just up the ante on HQ materials if your resulting average chance was too low and oftentimes it was not possible to recover once a skill missed 3 times in a row (Dat 80% ). Then you just finished the item and prayed to RNGsus for HQ. If you knew that 100%ing was impossible for your gear, you just farmed up mats for say 5 crafts and brute forced HQ via RNG gaming (similar to how crafting worked in AION). Neither required any player skill, just time.

I mean, I craft hundreds of end game gear for all 8 servers on my data Center, have alts at all lvl80 crafts, earn roughly 800M Gil a month, (due to how absurdly easy crafting is now, more like 500 or 600M) and I do it all because it’s fun. I would classify that as “hardcore.”

Hardcore in no-lifing stuff / dumping time into a video game maybe.. well definitely.
Hardcore in the term of player skill like some ultimate raider? Nope.

Again: I would not be opposed to crafting needing actual player skill to successfully execute (no I don't have any ideas, I'm not a game DEV).
However, RNG crap and soulless grinds can go where the sun doesn't shine, as far as I am concerned.

[Jimmymagic]

Are you kidding me? Really? RNG is the worst concept in any genre of gaming and has no challenge or skill involved just "luck".

I despise Rng and drives me insane on gathering nevermind the frustration of getting leveled to do prudent touch.

Easier crafting makes me feel like the effort of gathering is rewarded IMO.

[CookiesNCreams]

@Granyala

I also made my own rotations that I did not share with anyone, lol. That includes gathering. I enjoy figuring things out for myself, and that was challenging as well. Now, with guaranteed touches not failing, even a 12 year old can come up with an optimal rotation. How can you not admit that it’s a joke?

Last time I checked, mostly adults with a decent education are playing this game. Not children who cannot figure out mechanics.

RNG doesn’t even need to be re introduced. All they have to do is make crafting hard some how. For example, only allowing end game recipes to let you use 6-7 touches and 3 progress moves. That would encourage people to stop spamming Prudent Touch like children, and actually think.

[Kabooa]

@Granyala

I also made my own rotations that I did not share with anyone, lol. That includes gathering. I enjoy figuring things out for myself, and that was challenging as well. Now, with guaranteed touches not failing, even a 12 year old can come up with an optimal rotation. How can you not admit that it’s a joke?

Last time I checked, mostly adults with a decent education are playing this game. Not children who cannot figure out mechanics.

RNG doesn’t even need to be re introduced. All they have to do is make crafting hard some how. For example, only allowing end game recipes to let you use 6-7 touches and 3 progress moves. That would encourage people to stop spamming Prudent Touch like children, and actually think.

And then it gets solved in an hour and shared on the internet.

[Jimmymagic]

@Granyala

I also made my own rotations that I did not share with anyone, lol. That includes gathering. I enjoy figuring things out for myself, and that was challenging as well. Now, with guaranteed touches not failing, even a 12 year old can come up with an optimal rotation. How can you not admit that it’s a joke?

Last time I checked, mostly adults with a decent education are playing this game. Not children who cannot figure out mechanics.

RNG doesn’t even need to be re introduced. All they have to do is make crafting hard some how. For example, only allowing end game recipes to let you use 6-7 touches and 3 progress moves. That would encourage people to stop spamming Prudent Touch like children, and actually think.

Now this is pretty good idea. If you looking for more higher level challenge. I apologize for going off base with RNG....is just so frustrating chancing HQ item or worse failing a syn and losing HQ mats

[Granyala]

@Granyala
I also made my own rotations that I did not share with anyone, lol. That includes gathering. I enjoy figuring things out for myself, and that was challenging as well. Now, with guaranteed touches not failing, even a 12 year old can come up with an optimal rotation. How can you not admit that it’s a joke?

Barring hasty touches, touches were ALWAYS guaranteed once you got Steady Hands II. Even back in ARR.
The point was to craft as little of the RNG infested "hasty" moves as possible and replacing them with guaranteed touches as CP allowed.

The real kicker is that we have so much CP now, we can afford to replace all of the "hasty" moves when it comes to quality and often even in regards to item completion. (though I finished most of my items with Quick Synth 3 b/c lazy)

If you want to re-invent the wheel for yourself: sure, have fun. You don't have to use prudent touch at all if it makes things too "easy" for you. Though odds are that your solution will end up as being less effective compared to the FOTM way.

Regarding your idea: This is an MMO. A few dudes will do the leg work, post guides and 99% of the community will follow these guides because they are FOTM. That's just how things are, be that raiding, crafting, BiS gearing or class rotations. This is how MMO communities work.

All of that being said: I do agree with you that prudent touch feels unbalanced to the point that it makes many a skill superfluous. Increasing the CP cost of the ability would be the easiest way to deter us from spamming it.

[Darkplanet]

Omg people. Saying crafting is to easy with the easy recipes. Seriously wait till the book recipes AND yes Ishgard as well. Asking Square Enix to fix things then saying they won’t fix it is silly.

And yes all the current changes to crafting do in fact indicate that crafting will be more challenging down the road, also you forget one of those new skills is purely rng based. And there have been HEAVY nerfs as well.

Seriously, everyone calm down and wait for the actual hard recipes to come out.

[Miminming]

Make it harder? Ok
Rng? What? Hard? NO lol
Rewarding? Ok
Make gear hard to make!? Lol NO this gonna be a hindrance to the savage raider

Maybe make a content specially for crafter competing their rate with crafter glamour as reward will be good... but hey ishgard restoration will come soon!

TLDR i like easy crafting thanks

[CookiesNCreams]

Make it harder? Ok
Rng? What? Hard? NO lol
Rewarding? Ok
Make gear hard to make!? Lol NO this gonna be a hindrance to the savage raider

Maybe make a content specially for crafter competing their rate with crafter glamour as reward will be good... but hey ishgard restoration will come soon!

TLDR i like easy crafting thanks

I and many other crafters I know will not be participating in Ishgard if the rewards for compensation are simple glam items. That does not motivate many people to do it. Now, high stat gear and high stat tools? Sign me up.

Mind telling me why you personally want glam as the rewards? And not high stat gear? That isn’t being fair to the players who enjoy challenges, and being rewarded accordingly from those challenges. Favors in HW were a huge pain, but the favor gear? Worth it. Plus I really liked the design of them!

[DrWho2010]

but high stat gear/tools will just make it even easier to craft. thus defeating the purpose of making things difficult.