Square Enix, please think about both Casual AND Hardcore crafters..

[Kabooa]

Thank you. That is probably the only sensible comment I have seen so far. That’s why me and my girlfriend removed “Goddess/God of the Hand” title because it is meaningless. There is nothing exclusive about it anymore. Only players that get exclusivity, are raiders. Why is it that they get rewarded but crafters do not? Everybody should have the chance to feel rewarded, really.

Wants "Exclusivity".

But wants "everyone to feel rewarded".

Pick one.

[CookiesNCreams]

Wants "Exclusivity".

But wants "everyone to feel rewarded".

Pick one.

lol, don’t misunderstand me. I clearly said “everyone should have the *chance* to be rewarded.” Back in 2.3 crafting, plenty of people had the *chance* to feel rewarded with crafting, but chose not to. Heck even in Stormblood, people were given Prudent Touch, but still chose not to craft hundreds of pieces of gear.

Feeling rewarded should ultimately be up to you, dude. The game handing out rewards like it’s nothing is not encouraging behavior. Let’s not forget that difficult/ RNG crafting was Square’s idea. It seems it got changed in 4.0 due to so many casuals whining about the difficulty. I’m just making an educated guess though

[Cleanse]

I was not advocating it, though I’d not be against removal of macros.

BTW, ACT may be a grey area, if all its doing is parsing the log file and providing audio triggers. But, third party apps that would actually craft in game for people would definitely be against the TOS. Not sure why you would think that people who use macros now would suddenly do something that could get them banned ...

I was not talking about the grey area of third party app use or the use of anything automated.

I meant to state how it can be lazy design if the players feel they have to look outside of the game every time they craft a complex rotation (could be an image, text file, visualization app, etc). Macros are fun to make as you're adjusting them to your ever growing power and a convenience after solving a puzzle.

Thank you. That is probably the only sensible comment I have seen so far. That’s why me and my girlfriend removed “Goddess/God of the Hand” title because it is meaningless. There is nothing exclusive about it anymore. Only players that get exclusivity, are raiders. Why is it that they get rewarded but crafters do not? Everybody should have the chance to feel rewarded, really.

Not everyone has these titles or feats. Just because it is easy for you and your circle doesn't reflect on the player-base at large. The majority of the people I try and help end up stopping at level 15. Getting to the "easy rotations" requires a lot of time and effort. Not many, comparatively, make it to omnicrafter status.

[Kabooa]

Not everyone has these titles or feats. Just because it is easy for you and your circle doesn't reflect on the player-base at large. The majority of the people I try and help end up stopping at level 15. Getting to the "easy rotations" requires a lot of time and effort. Not many, comparatively, make it to omnicrafter status.

They're conflating difficulty with time. Probably thinks Pagos is the crowning achievement of relic steps too.

[Nixxe]

Not everyone has these titles or feats. Just because it is easy for you and your circle doesn't reflect on the player-base at large. The majority of the people I try and help end up stopping at level 15. Getting to the "easy rotations" requires a lot of time and effort. Not many, comparatively, make it to omnicrafter status.

The player base at large is also largely irrelevant when considering the needs of the people who focus on particular types of content. Savage is likewise going to be niche content that a relatively small portion of the playerbase will ever engage with, yet it's still developed three times per expansion, not to mention Ultimate fights, and stocked with appropriate rewards for those who choose to pursue them. That many players will never fully commit to crafting is not a good argument against letting players who focus on crafting be rewarded for their commitment and investment, just as happens in other areas of the game. Crafting needs to be accessible, but it's already extremely accessible. It doesn't need to be trivialized.

[Kabooa]

The player base at large is also largely irrelevant when considering the needs of the people who focus on particular types of content. Savage is likewise going to be niche content that a relatively small portion of the playerbase will ever engage with, yet it's still developed three times per expansion, not to mention Ultimate fights, and stocked with appropriate rewards for those who choose to pursue them. That many players will never fully commit to crafting is not a good argument against letting players who focus on crafting be rewarded for their commitment and investment, just as happens in other areas of the game. Crafting needs to be accessible, but it's already extremely accessible. It doesn't need to be trivialized.

You mean, like a competitive crafting focused area where the players themselves determine the rate of progress while also competing for the top leaderboard spot for whatever rewards they entail?

Something like that?

[Cleanse]

The player base at large is also largely irrelevant when considering the needs of the people who focus on particular types of content. Savage is likewise going to be niche content that a relatively small portion of the playerbase will ever engage with, yet it's still developed three times per expansion, not to mention Ultimate fights, and stocked with appropriate rewards for those who choose to pursue them. That many players will never fully commit to crafting is not a good argument against letting players who focus on crafting be rewarded for their commitment and investment, just as happens in other areas of the game. Crafting needs to be accessible, but it's already extremely accessible. It doesn't need to be trivialized.

Comparing crafting to Savage raiding is interesting considering the Crafter's "Savage" mode is coming in 5.1. Hopefully the challenge, rewards, and prestige meet your expectations. Also using your comparison, would it be fair to say that Crafting being as accessible as it is for everyone is similar to the accessibility of Normal Mode Raid content?

No. I mean like crafting actually in and of itself rewarding investment in it by opening up a wider selection of crafts, rather than the situation that existed in SB and will almost certainly exist in ShB where you can hammer out a few ezpz scrip turn ins and get casual gear that will still let you 100% HQ top tier crafts. If you are wearing vendor gear, you should not be able to make the current highest star crafts. Period.

If you're wearing the latest casual gear and using tedious craft rotations (Maker's Mark), I see no issue.

Those of us who craft and meld (max CP) our own gear can afford easier rotations which in turn means more profit, more time to do other things, etc.

--

What would you feel is a fair system?

[Orbus]

As long as pre made macros are necessary for the vast majority of players for anything even approaching end game crafting (including me), it is in general far too difficult for the average player.

I don't mind if they want to add some stuff that only the most best and dedicated crafters can make, but that shouldn't be every single item post level cap.

[blueruckus]

I liked the Hasty Touch days. No guarantee of HQ made things feel more valuable. Now it feels like everyone becomes an instant winner and gets a participation trophy.

[TaleraRistain]

As others have said, RNG is not even remotely adding challenge. There's no skill involved in beating it. You just have to get lucky.

There's also nothing truly challenging about crafting in a game where you can have things like crafting macros. If you want a truly challenging system, you want something like EQII that had events you had to react to that could completely tank your craft if you didn't do them right. There was no macroing there because you had to stay active and engaged the entire time.

All they've done is removed the frustrating and pointless RNG.