Square Enix, please think about both Casual AND Hardcore crafters..

[Jojoya]

Since you really want to go there, crafting was originally not intended for players such as yourself, to be honest.

You don't know anything about me so you probably shouldn't go there.

Just don’t be selfish and try to push out the people who jumped on crafting since 2.0. They deserve content too. And like I said, this thread is basically a protest and an awareness thread for that. If Ishgard will meet our needs, this thread will die overtime. If it doesn’t, expect to see this thread for the next year or so.

I'm not the one trying to push others out. Nowhere have I said that all crafting should be easy mode.

You're the one who wants to push others out.

[CookiesNCreams]

That's not common sense, that's confirmation bias. You've decided that since you knew hardcore crafters who no longer play, with some of them telling you that they were quitting because of the crafting changes, that all of them had to quit over crafting changes and that this normal for the majority of hardcore crafters.

Haha, you can call it whatever you want to call it. Fact remains, it’s just common sense. If a grocery store begins to sell expired or bad goods to the public, and they eventually go out of business, common sense will tell you it’s because of the expired goods you purchased and didn’t like when you last went there. “Numbers” are irrelevant if you don’t have them. Which, you likely don’t, seeing as you are a regular person that is nowhere near this grocery store company’s CEO level. All you can do is make educated guesses.

Also, over the years, I would say around 30 - 32 per server? Back then, many people were pretty serious and hardcore about crafting, not counting just the competitive ones. On each server, my friends list was probably 180+, so, I’m sure a decent percentage of that were hardcore players. (And raiders too. Mostly because they wanted someone to craft them gear to be ready for a savage patch back then,)

By the way, your guesswork and scooby-doo interrogation-esque tone shouldn’t be regarded as authority either. The one who should be the authority, is the one who knows these hardcore players in question. And better yet, is one. You’re not going to change my mind. That’s just basic knowledge.

You don't know anything about me so you probably shouldn't go there.


I'm not the one trying to push others out. Nowhere have I said that all crafting should be easy mode.

You're the one who wants to push others out.

1. You should probably, like, treat people the way you’d like to be treated if you didn’t like what I said.

2. To make hardcore only content, you have to make a barrier. It’s impossible to make it accessible to casual players. You think Harvard is just going to arbitrarily accept D and F students because you say so? No. That’s how most games actually work, anyway. They have content split between two types of players with two types of work ethic. They reward these player’s accordingly. And FFXIV shouldn’t be exempt from it. It sure as heck isn’t when it comes to raiding. So why should crafting meet that fate?

Because you’re bad at it?
Because you can’t find the time to actually do it?

Don’t be silly. Also, my intention isn’t to “push” players like you out, it’s to give hardcore players content. That’s my goal.

[Callinon]

1. You should probably, like, treat people the way you’d like to be treated if you didn’t like what I said.

Pot, meet kettle. Kettle, pot.

[CookiesNCreams]

Pot, meet kettle. Kettle, pot.

Fish bait is bait.

[Callinon]

Fish bait is bait.

My point here is that you're telling someone to treat people the way you want to be treated while simultaneously being just about the most toxic person I've seen on these forums who wasn't actually TRYING to troll people. Unless you ARE trying to troll and you're just the best one ever. I suppose I'll leave that possibility open.

[CookiesNCreams]

My point here is that you're telling someone to treat people the way you want to be treated while simultaneously being just about the most toxic person I've seen on these forums who wasn't actually TRYING to troll people. Unless you ARE trying to troll and you're just the best one ever. I suppose I'll leave that possibility open.

So I’m toxic because I’m a hardcore crafter and my opinions oppose yours? Oh, and you want to call me a troll too. Kay, I’m going to just ignore you now since you clearly don’t want to have a civil discussion about crafting. You just want to argue constantly, and in such an aggressive tone too. Take that bias disdain towards hardcore players to General Discussion, please.

“Toxic”...and you want to call me a kettle, lol.

[Callinon]

So I’m toxic because I’m a hardcore crafter and my opinions oppose yours? Oh, and you want to call me a troll too. Kay, I’m going to just ignore you now since you clearly don’t want to have a civil discussion about crafting. You just want to argue constantly, and in such an aggression tone too. Take that bias disdain towards hardcore players to General Discussion, please.

Not at all. You're toxic because you have a smug sense of your own superiority based entirely on naming yourself "hardcore." Honestly, it's not even clear what that's supposed to even mean, but it's the label you've given yourself. You CONSTANTLY talk down to other players you deem as less hardcore than yourself. You spend your time telling people that crafting isn't meant for them. You refuse to engage on any issue you don't like. You pull statistics directly out of your ass and then talk down to anyone that challenges you on that practice.

Basically you don't debate or discuss in good faith. You talk at people instead of to them. And you refuse to acknowledge your own biases, which is a personality flaw that you won't enjoy later in life.

Has nothing to do with your opinions being in opposition to mine. Has everything to do with your garbage attitude.

[Maeka]

Not at all. You're toxic because you have a smug sense of your own superiority based entirely on naming yourself "hardcore." Honestly, it's not even clear what that's supposed to even mean, but it's the label you've given yourself. You CONSTANTLY talk down to other players you deem as less hardcore than yourself. You spend your time telling people that crafting isn't meant for them. You refuse to engage on any issue you don't like. You pull statistics directly out of your ass and then talk down to anyone that challenges you on that practice.

Basically you don't debate or discuss in good faith. You talk at people instead of to them. And you refuse to acknowledge your own biases, which is a personality flaw that you won't enjoy later in life.

Has nothing to do with your opinions being in opposition to mine. Has everything to do with your garbage attitude.

^^

This is why I've given up on engaging with anybody who displays this sort of attitude.

People who label themselves "Hardcore" seem to think they are God's Gift to FFXIV, who have so much self-importance and self-entitlement that it's just.... it's really worn thin. There are some really good elite players out there who are still humble, and *those* are the kinds of players I give all kinds of respect to. As much as I speak out against elitism, it's the vocal self-important elites that I am speaking out against.

[CookiesNCreams]

^^

This is why I've given up on engaging with anybody who displays this sort of attitude.

People who label themselves "Hardcore" seem to think they are God's Gift to FFXIV, who have so much self-importance and self-entitlement that it's just.... it's really worn thin. There are some really good elite players out there who are still humble, and *those* are the kinds of players I give all kinds of respect to. As much as I speak out against elitism, it's the vocal self-important elites that I am speaking out against.

Well, painting me out to be the bad guy here doesn’t really help his case. All I want is for players like me to get content. That’s really it, and that’s what my thread is for. I don’t care what sort of ignorant people I have to talk to to make it happen. Also, it’s quite rude to make assumptions about someone saying they are “elitist” when you’ve never spoken to them personally on their server. I can make baseless assumptions about you too. What sort of crafter you know who has 20+ billion gil occasionally pay off Large plots for free? Last time I checked, not many. I wouldn’t call that elitist behavior.

Anyways, this is getting way off topic of the original thread. Point is this:

Endgame crafting is too easy.
Endgame crafting requires no thought, just copy a macro and be done with your HQ recipes.
Endgame crafting encourages laziness, rather than encouraging hard work and careful thought.
Endgame crafting was perfectly fine up until 4.0 began.

Endgame crafting has to change, no matter how many angry bias people I have to speak to, to make it happen, I will. Whether it be Ishgard only or all endgame recipes. I do not care, it must be resolved. I have huge doubts about Ishgard being “challenging” with decent rewards too, that’s why I need to make this thread perfectly clear to Square:

If Ishgard Leaderboard Rewards do not encourage players to grind and compete for hours and hours, players will NOT do them. I mean mounts, minions, and titles. If you want players to do them consistently, offer high stat tools, or gear, or both. And if it’s glam, it needs to be similar to 2B Butt glam, lol. Otherwise nobody will do it. At least not consistently.

[Maeka]

Well, painting me out to be the bad guy here doesn’t really help his case. All I want is for players like me to get content. That’s really it, and that’s what my thread is for. I don’t care what sort of ignorant people I have to talk to to make it happen. Also, it’s quite rude to make assumptions about someone saying they are “elitist” when you’ve never spoken to them personally on their server. I can make baseless assumptions about you too. What sort of crafter you know who has 20+ billion gil occasionally pay off Large plots for free? Last time I checked, not many. I wouldn’t call that elitist behavior.

Somebody who's calling themselves hardcore are almost always elitist. You see the funny thing with the 'hardcore' label, is that the actual elite/hardcore players would never use that word to describe themselves, unless they were asked what sort of content they do.

Someone who stands up and goes "I'm a Hardcore!" is.... well, they wanna be the top dog, but they clearly know they're not. They just want you to think they are.

Anyways, this is getting way off topic of the original thread. Point is this:

Endgame crafting is too easy.
Endgame crafting requires no thought, just copy a macro and be done with your HQ recipes.
Endgame crafting encourages laziness, rather than encouraging hard work and careful thought.
Endgame crafting was perfectly fine up until 4.0 began.

And ALL of crafting suffered for a tiny part of the population to have their fun. This is Sunwell (from WoW) all over again. 1% of the entire population (Pretty sure i twas less than) had actually cleared Sunwell before that patch that nerfed raid mobs at the end of Burning Crusade.

1%.

Of the entire playerbase.

Now I'm not saying that in 4.0, 1% of the entire playerbase was doing endgame crafting, but it sure wasn't 10% I wouldn't say.

Why should we have an area of the game locked off for such a tiny part of the population? FFXIV was never meant to be a hardcore game for elite players. I'm fairly sure Yoshi-P only added Savage and Ultimate content because he kept getting non-stop requests from people asking for it.

The game was designed to be casual from the get-go.

Endgame crafting has to change, no matter how many angry bias people I have to speak to, to make it happen, I will. Whether it be Ishgard only or all endgame recipes. I do not care, it must be resolved.

Says who?

You?


A small portion of the playerbase who wants to get all vocal, scream and shout?

If Yoshi-P can do this, make hard endgame crafts, without punishing the people who are doing the casual crafting, then fine. But I don't want this "harder hardcore endgame crafting" to come at a cost to the casuals. Back in 4.0 there was no casual crafting, other than beast tribes. The people who were at the top at 3.0, were still at the top in 4.0 and attempting to get into that was a ridiculous uphill battle that you had to either get lucky or have a ton of time on your hands to even stand a chance.