Square Enix, please think about both Casual AND Hardcore crafters..

[Talam]

Anyways, nobody has statistical data on subscriptions in FFXIV from 2016 - Now, unless you’re trying to tell me you somehow do. :P My point is, it’s disingenuous and quite pretentious to imply less than 1% of crafters quit because of crafting’s nerfs. It’s most definitely higher than that.

So in the same paragraph, you say that nobody has statistical data on subscriptions, but then suggest that more than 1% of crafters quit because of the crafting changes. Do you not see the inherent contradiction here?

[CookiesNCreams]

So in the same paragraph, you say that nobody has statistical data on subscriptions, but then suggest that more than 1% of crafters quit because of the crafting changes. Do you not see the inherent contradiction here?

That’s called using common sense and an educated guess based on what you’ve seen. I have actually known plenty of hardcore crafters before they quit across 3 servers, and I have not seen them since. So, based on using common sense, the average person can surmise that unfortunately, it’s likely the norm for these types of players.

You’re trying to imply you can prove me wrong, even though you have not known very many hardcore crafters personally, if, at all? Which, you likely do not. As far as I’m concerned, we’re in the same boat. Except one person is a hardcore crafter/knows hardcore crafters, and one does not. Sounds kind of silly if that’s what you’re suggesting. Look back at what I said and see who’s really contradicting here.

[Jojoya]

That’s called using common sense and an educated guess based on what you’ve seen. I have actually known plenty of hardcore crafters before they quit across 3 servers, and I have not seen them since. So, based on using common sense, the average person can surmise that unfortunately, it’s likely the norm for these types of players.

You’re trying to imply you can prove me wrong, even though you have not known very many hardcore crafters personally, if, at all? Which, you likely do not. Sounds kind of silly if that’s what you’re suggesting. Look back at what I said and see who’s really contradicting here.

So you know a relative handful of crafters who quit playing because they feel crafting isn't hardcore enough.

Okay. That's their choice. People quit playing games all the time for whatever reasons suit their fancy.

Why they were expecting things to be more difficult this patch is beyond me. SE told us that the Ishgard leaderboards were going to be the crafter/gatherer end game and more difficult recipes would be getting added later in the expansion. They were pretty clear that this patch was about making crafting and gathering more accessible to the general player base, and giving us an introduction to the Ishgard systems so we could get used to them before the leaderboards start (probably in 5.2).

Complain all you want for now. It's not going to change anything. SE has their plan in place for introducing more challenging content for crafters. Until it's implemented into the game so we can see and evaluate what they came up with, you're just blowing a lot of useless hot air over things that were never intended to be about you in the first place.

[CookiesNCreams]

Complain all you want for now. It's not going to change anything. SE has their plan in place for introducing more challenging content for crafters. Until it's implemented into the game so we can see and evaluate what they came up with, you're just blowing a lot of useless hot air over things that were never intended to be about you in the first place.

Since you really want to go there, crafting was originally not intended for players such as yourself, to be honest. Look back in 2.0 ARR. (not 1.0) How was crafting then? You think you could just pick up a rotation you found online and start slamming HQ endgame recipes like it’s cake? You think you could just get guaranteed HQ touches on a craft and everything will be just fine and dandy? You think you can only spend a few hours grinding for master books?

No.

Crafting originally, was intended for a serious player base. It was only until 4.0 where Yoshida kind of shilled out and turned it into a casual only thing. You have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about, sorry. I just find it funny how you really believe this was intended for players like you, it wasn’t. Debate with me all you want, it’s not going to go anywhere. It. Wasn’t. Intended. For. You. They changed it in 4.0 to make it so. Which, is fine.

Just don’t be selfish and try to push out the people who jumped on crafting since 2.0. They deserve content too. And like I said, this thread is basically a protest and an awareness thread for that. If Ishgard will meet our needs, this thread will die overtime. If it doesn’t, expect to see this thread for the next year or so.

[Jojoya]

Since you really want to go there, crafting was originally not intended for players such as yourself, to be honest.

You don't know anything about me so you probably shouldn't go there.

Just don’t be selfish and try to push out the people who jumped on crafting since 2.0. They deserve content too. And like I said, this thread is basically a protest and an awareness thread for that. If Ishgard will meet our needs, this thread will die overtime. If it doesn’t, expect to see this thread for the next year or so.

I'm not the one trying to push others out. Nowhere have I said that all crafting should be easy mode.

You're the one who wants to push others out.

[Talam]

That’s called using common sense and an educated guess based on what you’ve seen. I have actually known plenty of hardcore crafters before they quit across 3 servers, and I have not seen them since. So, based on using common sense, the average person can surmise that unfortunately, it’s likely the norm for these types of players.

You’re trying to imply you can prove me wrong, even though you have not known very many hardcore crafters personally, if, at all? Which, you likely do not. As far as I’m concerned, we’re in the same boat. Except one person is a hardcore crafter/knows hardcore crafters, and one does not. Sounds kind of silly if that’s what you’re suggesting. Look back at what I said and see who’s really contradicting here.

That's not common sense, that's confirmation bias. You've decided that since you knew hardcore crafters who no longer play, with some of them telling you that they were quitting because of the crafting changes, that all of them had to quit over crafting changes and that this normal for the majority of hardcore crafters.

What I'm trying to do is point out that the foundation of your arguments based on 'knowing people' is shaky at best. You haven't provided any real numbers as to how many hardcore crafters you did know, not even ballpark figures. You didn't provide how many of them talked to you about their quitting due to the crafting changes, and no one has numbers on how many players actually engage in crafting, let alone how many qualify as hardcore. Have you even conducted a survey across multiple sites like the official forums here and reddit?

All I've read so far is a whole lot of opinions and people trying to push opinions as facts. If anyone is going to semi-seriously throw out numbers or pass themselves off as an authority, they should have actual findable data and research to back it up.

[Callinon]

If anyone is going to semi-seriously throw out numbers or pass themselves off as an authority, they should have actual findable data and research to back it up.

If that information exists, only SE has it. And I rather doubt even they have it broken down by "hardcore" crafter unsubs vs other unsubs.

[CookiesNCreams]

That's not common sense, that's confirmation bias. You've decided that since you knew hardcore crafters who no longer play, with some of them telling you that they were quitting because of the crafting changes, that all of them had to quit over crafting changes and that this normal for the majority of hardcore crafters.

Haha, you can call it whatever you want to call it. Fact remains, it’s just common sense. If a grocery store begins to sell expired or bad goods to the public, and they eventually go out of business, common sense will tell you it’s because of the expired goods you purchased and didn’t like when you last went there. “Numbers” are irrelevant if you don’t have them. Which, you likely don’t, seeing as you are a regular person that is nowhere near this grocery store company’s CEO level. All you can do is make educated guesses.

Also, over the years, I would say around 30 - 32 per server? Back then, many people were pretty serious and hardcore about crafting, not counting just the competitive ones. On each server, my friends list was probably 180+, so, I’m sure a decent percentage of that were hardcore players. (And raiders too. Mostly because they wanted someone to craft them gear to be ready for a savage patch back then,)

By the way, your guesswork and scooby-doo interrogation-esque tone shouldn’t be regarded as authority either. The one who should be the authority, is the one who knows these hardcore players in question. And better yet, is one. You’re not going to change my mind. That’s just basic knowledge.

You don't know anything about me so you probably shouldn't go there.


I'm not the one trying to push others out. Nowhere have I said that all crafting should be easy mode.

You're the one who wants to push others out.

1. You should probably, like, treat people the way you’d like to be treated if you didn’t like what I said.

2. To make hardcore only content, you have to make a barrier. It’s impossible to make it accessible to casual players. You think Harvard is just going to arbitrarily accept D and F students because you say so? No. That’s how most games actually work, anyway. They have content split between two types of players with two types of work ethic. They reward these player’s accordingly. And FFXIV shouldn’t be exempt from it. It sure as heck isn’t when it comes to raiding. So why should crafting meet that fate?

Because you’re bad at it?
Because you can’t find the time to actually do it?

Don’t be silly. Also, my intention isn’t to “push” players like you out, it’s to give hardcore players content. That’s my goal.

[Callinon]

1. You should probably, like, treat people the way you’d like to be treated if you didn’t like what I said.

Pot, meet kettle. Kettle, pot.

[CookiesNCreams]

Pot, meet kettle. Kettle, pot.

Fish bait is bait.