Square Enix, please think about both Casual AND Hardcore crafters..

[Aurida]

Sorry, it's the 'selfish mindset' that everyone should be able to participate equally in the content rather than just a dedicated few? That's the 'selfish mindset' we're discussing here?

The one that *didn't* result in a handful of players per server running the entire server economy so that they can occasionally feel good about themselves when they see their name on equipment whilst inspecting randos in Limsa that haven't replaced it with tomestone gear for some reason?

Also you absolutely can macro a proc if it's necessary for some reason, and even if you couldn't, people would just use flowcharts of the sort that they already use for collectable gathering and aetherial reduction. The mathematically perfect, flawless crafting rotation will probably already be posted in an infographic on Reddit before the servers go live on 5.2, so I'm terribly excited to see what the reconstruction leaderboards look like on week 1.

[CookiesNCreams]

@Aurida

I. Okay, instead of endgame content requiring procs, let’s talk about Ishgard Restoration (higher tier only rewards) requiring procs, and actual observation to HQ a craft. Let’s say, it’s only Ishgard. So that means casual players can freely do as they please with all endgame recipes, and hardcore players can compete for rewards (and against each other in Ishgard Restoration). Hardcore players just want some content, and don’t have a problem with casuals having things. But casuals seem to want anything even remotely hardcore to be neutralized. It’s hypocritical and spiteful.

Tell me. What about this bothers you? Something like that wasn’t meant for you. Everything shouldn’t be altered to meet your needs. Adapt.

II. That period of time for crafters was rather interesting. And I must say, I didn’t enjoy it. I would usually tank prices (reasonably) because I wanted players to afford things for a good price. Millions of Gil for a chest piece? No, not happening while I’m here, lol. So you can throw that judgement out the window in my case. Also, what’s wrong with feeling good about seeing players wear your gear? How does that affect you in any way? It’s fun. To argue otherwise just simply means you want to ruin these people’s fun all for your own satisfaction.

Tell me. Why does that bother you so much? It’s their fun, so what.

III. You. Can. Not. Macro. A. Proc. Also, it’ll require multiple procs, not just one. So you and your macros can’t really save the day when this happens in 5.2. I don’t know why you keep bringing that up. Flowcharts aren’t going to get the lazy players motivated enough to learn and understand crafting. You either want to craft, or you don’t. And 4.0 - 5.1 shows exactly who wants to learn crafting and who just wants to spam macros while they’re watching Game of Thrones on Netflix.

Tell me. Why do you think you can cheese through a proc’d rotation with a macro? You either understand crafting or you don’t. And 5.2 will make sure of that.

[Liam_Harper]

That's basically the entire crux of the argument, yeah. "This thing should be pointlessly and frustratingly difficult to gate people who aren't as dedicated and as hardcore as I am out of it; this way, when people like me do throw themselves at it for long enough, then it's impressive when we complete it, and then I and people like me can hold its related subsystems hostage."

It has nothing to do with gating you out. We simply enjoy it. You see it as tedious, we see it as satisfying when you put a lot of effort and patience into something.

Sorry, it's the 'selfish mindset' that everyone should be able to participate equally in the content rather than just a dedicated few? That's the 'selfish mindset' we're discussing here?

Exactly. It's not about participation, it's about fun. The casual player wants all crafting content to the type of content they find fun. The hardcore wants a tiny fraction of the crafting content to cater to their idea of fun and casual players can have the other 98%. Who's being selfish here?