Square Enix, please think about both Casual AND Hardcore crafters..

[Nixxe]

The moment it becomes mechanical though, that's when the gloves come off.

What's wrong with mechanical advantages in an area of the game where stratification is based entirely on deciding to put effort into it or not? Nobody can be locked out of it unless they choose to be locked out of it.

[Kabooa]

What's wrong with mechanical advantages in an area of the game where stratification is based entirely on deciding to put effort into it or not? Nobody can be locked out of it unless they choose to be locked out of it.

Nobody chooses to have spare time for it. You either have the time, or you don't, and while this isn't an issue if the "advantage" itself exists in its own vacuum each tier, the bigger issue is whether or not it leads to more gatekeeping.

You want your +20 ilvl crafter gear, sure fine, I don't care.

Oh wait, we need that +20 ilvl crafted gear to make X, Y, Z and they aren't -glamour only- items? Then we have a problem.

[Nixxe]

Nobody chooses to have spare time for it. You either have the time, or you don't, and while this isn't an issue if the "advantage" itself exists in its own vacuum each tier, the bigger issue is whether or not it leads to more gatekeeping.

You want your +20 ilvl crafter gear, sure fine, I don't care.

Oh wait, we need that +20 ilvl crafted gear to make X, Y, Z and they aren't -glamour only- items? Then we have a problem.

Um... so what? People may not have the spare time for Savage or Ultimate. Does that mean it's not OK to have Savage and Ultimate? Some people may not even have enough time to level to 80. Do we need to get rid of levels? Why should the entire playerbase have to suffer because you can't stand the idea that someone who puts more time and effort into a game may get something you don't? Why should my ability to get something out of the game be limited by your free time? The game should always seek to first and foremost take care of people who actually have the time to play it.

[Kabooa]

The game should always seek to first and foremost take care of people who actually have the time to play it.

How much time qualifies for 'having the time to play it'?

[Nixxe]

How much time qualifies for 'having the time to play it'?

A nonzero amount of time, but let me expand on that statement by saying that there's always going to be someone who has to spend 197 hours a week helping their grandparents take care of their goldfish, which is suffering from dementia and in need of constant care. The fact that they personally do not have time to play as much as others should not be wielded as a cudgel to harm the experience of those who can play more. We each have the same amount of hours in a week and we each spend them differently in accordance with our needs and priorities. Presumably, if you spent less time on this game than someone else, you got something for that time. Maybe you hung out with friends or maybe you collected a paycheck or maybe you did something else. That you should then come to this game and demand that those who spent more time on this game be barred from receiving rewards proportionate to that greater investment is utterly selfish.

Just last week I spent almost all of my free time finishing up my crafters. That meant I didn't level up more DoW/M jobs. That meant I didn't do some other recreational activities outside of the game. That meant I didn't start a book I've been meaning to read. What I got for that time was max leveled crafters I no longer have to worry about and had fun doing it, especially when the money started rolling in afterward. Should I be in here demanding that everyone else's progression in every other area of the game be limited because that wasn't how I spent my time? I'm usually unsubbed for around half of every expansion. When I come back, should I be instantly boosted into full BiS crafting gear? Conversely, should everyone else be barred from getting anything of value while I'm gone? It'd be pretty insane to answer yes to that, yet here you are insisting that it's utterly intolerable that anyone should be rewarded with anything you want for spending more time than you in a particular way.

Crafting has never been so involved as to be completely inaccessible to casual players. I would know, as I have generally been fairly casual with this game. I will put in a lot of hours at certain points, but between unsubbing and the rest of the time, it averages out. I started this game halfway through ARR. I began leveling DoH in the last quarter with little gil and no clue what I was doing. I had seven million gil by the end of the expansion, as well as two level 50 crafting classes. It wasn't much, but I spent time and put effort into it and I earned that. I first became an omnicrafter when I came back in the second half of HW. I got my Ironworks gear and started making money. I got up to 35 mil by the end of HW. I've kept up with crafting since then and continue to derive joy from using it to make money. When I come back from one of my breaks, I am always behind in every aspect of the game. I don't come to the forums and complain that other people have "mechanical advantages." They played the game. They stayed subbed. They put more time into it. They deserve that advantage. I just figure out what matters to me and get to work. Indeed, if they took that away, if they trivialized it, I would literally have less of a game to play.

There's no value in a game that beats itself for you, but if that's what you want, there's always Crusaders of Light.

[Kabooa]

There's no value in a game that beats itself for you, but if that's what you want, there's always Crusaders of Light.

I think we're just going to disagree heavily on a singular point, where exclusivity rewards mechanical power.

So, good luck. I hope Ishgard works for you, and I hope the masterbooks do too. I hope the game remains fun, or reclaims some of it for you. If it doesn't, I recommend Black Desert Online. It sounds like it'll hit the notes you want.