Square Enix, please think about both Casual AND Hardcore crafters..

[DrWho2010]

how dare the casual plebs be on the same level as me!

[Nixxe]

how dare the casual plebs be on the same level as me!

*How dare people who don't want to invest time or effort be allowed to obtain every bit as much as I do, ruining what I enjoy in the process.

[Kabooa]

*How dare people who don't want to invest time or effort be allowed to obtain every bit as much as I do, ruining what I enjoy in the process.

See, it's comments like this where it shows it's not really about difficulty.

[CookiesNCreams]

See, it's comments like this where it shows it's not really about difficulty.

I think what Nixxe is trying to say, is that there should be a barrier that separates the two players: the no-life players VS the players that are on the casual side. When there is no barrier, it means the players on the casual side can get the same rewards as the no life players.

That’s usually not how online video games work. When I used to play call of duty a lot, I spent hours and even weeks trying to farm Headshots to get all golden guns. Where I eventually got diamond guns as a compensation. Very rewarding. It showed that the developers appreciate the no life players that really enjoyed their game. That goes for other MMOs as well...can’t say the same for WoW though, lol. Maybe. FPS, TPS, MMOs, they have all had a barrier. But FFXIV for some reason does not.

In FFXIV’s case, Prudent Touch, Preparatory Touch, and Delicate Synthesis....along with no hardcore challenges and rewards...is like telling your no life players to : “get lost, and go somewhere else. we only care for our casual players. you no life players can piss off” basically.

Me personally, I would like to know the FFXIV development team’s reasoning for that. Depending on their answer, I may unfortunately end my subscription. I really loved this game. The simple solution would be to cater to BOTH types of players. Not favor one over the other. We BOTH deserve content and compassion. This “casual vs hardcore” war needs to stop, and can be easily solved with Yoshida listening to us both, instead of silencing one crowd, and listening to only the other.

And that, is what I am trying to argue here.

[Kabooa]

In FFXIV’s case, Prudent Touch, Preparatory Touch, and Delicate Synthesis....along with no hardcore challenges and rewards...is like telling your no life players to : “get lost, and go somewhere else. we only care for our casual players. you no life players can piss off” basically.

It's a simple matter of what gives the most bang for the buck.

One could make the argument that Savage, Ultimate, and Extremes aren't content consumed by everyone, but they are content that dips its fingers in to drive things in every area. It gives relevancy to gear and consumble crafting which in turn drives gathering, which generates maps, which garners glamour materials, which feeds back into crafting, etc etc.

Using your example specifically, I doubt those diamond guns provided any real advantage (AKA They're Glamours).

And frankly if you come from this angle, I have no truck against it. You want a fancy ass diamond studded saw with automatic teeth realiagnment that you have to grind out 20,000 HQ masterwork items for, by god, I'm all for it. You do you.

I personally wouldn't do it, but then, I'm not the hardcore crafter. And, as long as it's just exclusive glamours, I think you'll find a lot less resistance to this. Be them fancy achievement items, or absurdly numerical crafts, or somethin that you can't macro your way through.

The moment it becomes mechanical though, that's when the gloves come off.

[Nixxe]

The moment it becomes mechanical though, that's when the gloves come off.

What's wrong with mechanical advantages in an area of the game where stratification is based entirely on deciding to put effort into it or not? Nobody can be locked out of it unless they choose to be locked out of it.

[Kabooa]

What's wrong with mechanical advantages in an area of the game where stratification is based entirely on deciding to put effort into it or not? Nobody can be locked out of it unless they choose to be locked out of it.

Nobody chooses to have spare time for it. You either have the time, or you don't, and while this isn't an issue if the "advantage" itself exists in its own vacuum each tier, the bigger issue is whether or not it leads to more gatekeeping.

You want your +20 ilvl crafter gear, sure fine, I don't care.

Oh wait, we need that +20 ilvl crafted gear to make X, Y, Z and they aren't -glamour only- items? Then we have a problem.

[Nixxe]

See, it's comments like this where it shows it's not really about difficulty.

I never suggested otherwise. Crafting in this game isn't about difficulty and couldn't really be made to be about difficulty without a drastic overhaul; it's about resource investment, in particular time. I laid out my thoughts on the subject on page 4. Simply put though, putting more time and effort into crafting should give me something to show for it as it has in the past, but SE seems determined to make sure that's not the case.

[Granyala]

*How dare people who don't want to invest time or effort be allowed to obtain every bit as much as I do, ruining what I enjoy in the process.

But here is the kicker:
You DON'T have to invest absurd amounts of time anymore.
That's a good thing because a) there is a Real Life that is much more deserving of your energy than a video game b) there are other games out there that are fun too.
Cutting down on mindless grind and RNG is a win-win scenario for all involved, including the hardcores, making room for other hobbies in the process.

That’s usually not how online video games work. When I used to play call of duty a lot, I spent hours and even weeks trying to farm Headshots to get all golden guns. Where I eventually got diamond guns as a compensation. Very rewarding. It showed that the developers appreciate the no life players that really enjoyed their game.

And I would argue, that good game design delivers the goods w/o encouraging no-life behavior and falling into the skinner-box / addiction trap. Esp when it is a game that you play solo (crafting is, in essence, a 1 man effort).

Maxing DoH classes is far, far less of a time investment then DoW/M classes thanks to the ridiculous EXP payouts on the levequests.

That's because leveling the crafters and crafting the actual items never was the time consuming part.
It was getting your gear ready in order to be allowed to craft the item that ate up the majority of the time. Esp in ARR when you could not easily get your hands on materia, had to spiritbind it yourself or spend a fortune on the Market Boards. REPEATEDLY because they released tiers of gear just like for DOM/W.

So in the downtime you crafted the crap out of things in order to make money for the next RNG 1 armed bandit "affix my materia plx" round.

THAT'S what kept me off crafting in ARR and HW. And them adding cheap IV materia and affordable Vs via scrip was the single most impactful nerf to crafting ever.
That and making desynthesis *shudder* basically useless past 100.

Forget the whine about prudent touch, that is merely a convenience not having to deal with RNG anymore.
Figuring out a rotation to get your item to HQ/completion isn't exactly rocket science. Never has been, despite what people would like you to believe.

[Nixxe]

But here is the kicker:
You DON'T have to invest absurd amounts of time anymore.
That's a good thing because a) there is a Real Life that is much more deserving of your energy than a video game b) there are other games out there that are fun too.
Cutting down on mindless grind and RNG is a win-win scenario for all involved, including the hardcores, making room for other hobbies in the process.

You're literally arguing that it's a good thing because it gives you less of a reason to play this game. You are the last person anyone in SE should cater to. Stop trying to take the game away from people who enjoy it, to say nothing of insisting you're doing us a favor in doing so.

Crafting never required absurd amounts of time anyway. This game has always been extremely casual friendly in the amounts of time it asks of players to accomplish things. Reducing that further means you may as well just stop logging in entirely.