Removing unnecessary buttons (SCH)

[Hatstand]

cause this game using Holy Trinity, healer should heal and buff do not much damage, tank should eat damage deal as much damage as healer and dps should do as much pain as possible with little defences and selfheals
im old school type mmorpg player maybe that why, im sitting longer in mmos then some kids going to school :P

ofc there are mmos with hybrids but not here

sometimes when im bored im playing guild wars 2 or ESO where any class can do any job (healing,support tank dps etc)

EDIT: i played SCH in SB and I would not call it complex dps combo to be honest maybe cause I played harder dps classes in the past
EDIT: I don't worry about WHM :] I like this class but i can play anything tank, healer (any healer class) or dps but I love healers the most :P classes in this game is already too easy to master imho

Yeah, SCH dps wasn't hard, but it was harder, and more interesting, than it is now. If they wanted to make it better than it was before, I'd have no complaints. And to be clear, when I say I would like things to be harder, I mean I'd like a higher skill ceiling.

Another genuine question: why is it so important that the holy trinity be pure? I know there are a lot of people who think it is, so I'd like to understand why.

The way I see it, there is only so much you can improve your healing: when no one is dying, you just can't do that job any better. I advocate for dps complexity because it means that there's always some way to do your job better (when you've got the healing down, and only then, you can work on optimising dps). I'd be equally happy with some sort of offensive buffing system, so long as it was decently complex and had short enough cooldowns that you could focus on maintaining it whenever there was no healing required. I'd be happy with them increasing the amount of damage incoming, so we had less reason to use our dps kits, but I think we still need to account for the fact that someone could master that harder content, and they should have something to continue to work towards at that point. Ergo the dps (or buffing system) should be there, even if most players will never use it (in group content, anyway. I imagine most would use dps in quests and whatnot).

If you have the time, I'd very much appreciate it if you told me why you think maintaining the purity of the trinity is important, how you think it stacks up against concerns like mine, and whether you can think of any solutions that would resolve my concerns while maintaining what you think is important.

Note: being able to optimise dps doesn't mean the dps has to be very powerful. Just complex enough that it's something you can improve at, and have at least a marginal benefit to your group.

[Dynia]

Another genuine question: why is it so important that the holy trinity be pure? I know there are a lot of people who think it is, so I'd like to understand why.

maybe cause im old and I respect tradition :P ?? nah its not it this time

now image class with:
- plate armor, def stats like paladin
- healing power and skills like WHM
- dps like paladin or WHM what ever here (I can already solo HUNT bosses on map as WHM, its take me like 1 hour to solo them but its possible)

with this class you can selftank and selfheal anything in the game and with enough time you could solo ANY raid

to answer that question that class would be OP, TOO OP / even hybrids with 2 elements are too strong, healer with too big dps is OP too imho (image that class on pvp high healing power and high dps)

what why Holy Trinity exist you are weak in something and strong in something, you can't eat cake and have cake,

that why is it so important that the holy trinity be pure, if you as healer do too much dmg, you away job from your fellow dps budy, its simple to KEEP class BALANCE

I rly wish they make harder dungeons or dungeons hard mode with harder mobs that give more exp and rewards or just M+ from wow :P


EDIT: and one more thing, would you be happy as black mage if your party member healer do same damage as you in raid ? (for example you and he do 10k dmg in the end to raid boss)
(yes yes yes, I know this game have DPS check on a lot of bosses ^^)

[Hatstand]

maybe cause im old and I respect tradition :P ?? nah its not it this time

now image class with:
- plate armor, def stats like paladin
- healing power and skills like WHM
- dps like paladin or WHM what ever here (I can already solo HUNT bosses on map as WHM, its take me like 1 hour to solo them but its possible)

with this class you can selftank and selfheal anything in the game and with enough time you could solo ANY raid

to answer that question that class would be OP, TOO OP / even hybrids with 2 elements are too strong, healer with too big dps is OP too imho (image that class on pvp high healing power and high dps)

what why Holy Trinity exist you are weak in something and strong in something, you can't eat cake and have cake,

that why is it so important that the holy trinity be pure, if you as healer do too much dmg, you away job from your fellow dps budy, its simple to KEEP class BALANCE

I rly wish they make harder dungeons or dungeons hard mode with harder mobs that give more exp and rewards or just M+ from wow :P


EDIT: and one more thing, would you be happy as black mage if your party member healer do same damage as you in raid ? (for example you and he do 10k dmg in the end to raid boss)
(yes yes yes, I know this game have DPS check on a lot of bosses ^^)

I see what you're saying, but I still think that both of us could be happy if we detach how interesting something is to do from how effective it is. If I was a BLM I wouldn't want the WHM to be able to do the same amount of damage I was while also healing (because then BLM would feel redundant), but I don't think that's entirely relevant. Let's say, for example, that a healer's dps contribution ranged from 0-5% of total raid dps. They'd still be well behind the DPS classes in terms of damage output, but striving to go from that 0 to that 5 could be an extra layer of challenge for the healer, once they'd mastered the healing (Maybe the best healers could even try to push themselves to 7%!). Making the means by which that dps was achieved more interesting would make the role more satisfying to play, without having any significant mechanical effect. Plus, since healer dps wouldn't be so important to the overall dps it wouldn't matter if some people struggled a bit to optimise it. So long as their healing was manageable they'd be able to do their job just fine.

You also didn't comment on the idea of adding buffs. I think that adding aoe buffs could make balance difficult, but single target buffs could be easier to balance.

(Ofc, all this is only considering group content. I'd like to see healers with enough dps out of group content to get their MSQ done in reasonable time. If you didn't want healers dpsing in group content you could have these skills morph into buffing skills when in group content)

Edit: some math- if all healers and tanks were doing around 5% of raid damage, they'd be doing less than half of what the average dps was putting out. I think that's a big enough disparity to avoid stepping on dps toes.