How tanking feels post ShB patch

[Valmarus]

Because you're playing a video game, and video games operate within boundaries defined by their developers. And they have decided, likely based on community feedback and their own internal data, that hate management needed to go. So it is gone. It's not about what came first or how it was in the beginning. If you want a game that has that, go play one.

Your logic is still flawed. You're saying that the people who liked it initially as it was shouldn't provide feedback saying how they feel it was a mistake to take that away and make tanking feel bad yet you're saying the reason it was changed is because people who were too lazy to play the job as it was didn't like the way it was so complained until it got changed so the people who liked how it was should just accept that even though the changes were made on feedback made by people who didn't like the way the job was so they complained and got it changed to a form that some people don't like and they shouldn't give feedback on why this is bad because the decision was made on feedback.... see where I'm going with this?

[Bobzitto]

Your logic is still flawed. You're saying that the people who liked it initially as it was shouldn't provide feedback saying how they feel it was a mistake to take that away and make tanking feel bad yet you're saying the reason it was changed is because people who were too lazy to play the job as it was didn't like the way it was so complained until it got changed so the people who liked how it was should just accept that even though the changes were made on feedback made by people who didn't like the way the job was so they complained and got it changed to a form that some people don't like and they shouldn't give feedback on why this is bad because the decision was made on feedback.... see where I'm going with this?

You sure put a lot of words in my mouth there. I like how the other side is "complaining" while you are "providing feedback". You can complain all you want. Like the people pre-5.0 did, I assume (wasn't here, wouldn't know). The truth of the matter is that we don't know how much feedback is taken into account by SE when they make their decisions. If they made this change mainly for balance and streamlining reasons, I doubt you'll see it reversed. If they did it for feedback reasons, then I HIGHLY doubt you'll see it changed.

[Bobzitto]

Which is why most game devs tend to take feedback of a bunch of salt. And also why I believe the change was done mostly due to streamlining and balance reasons.

[whiskeybravo]

Never assume that someone's forum character accuratley reflects their experience.

It wasn't an assumption, your avatar clearly states you joined June 2019. So the recap wasn't needed.

You still didn't answer the question. What happens after you accomplish "tanking" the mobs/boss?

Dealing damage is fun, and every job optimizes to deal more damage. It's been said over and over again that the days of tanks just being damage sponges are over. Maintaining threat because a developer emphasizes it doesn't make it interesting.

And that's the difference. "BUT LOOK AT MY AGGRO" isn't near as interesting "LOOK AT THAT 60K FELL CLEAVE"

In my opinion, the only reason anyone would prefer an aggro game over dps game is because they suck at the latter.

[MerlinCross]

It wasn't an assumption, your avatar clearly states you joined June 2019. So the recap wasn't needed.

You still didn't answer the question. What happens when after you accomplish "tanking" the mobs/boss?

Dealing damage is fun, and every job optimizes to deal more damage. It's been said over and over again that the days of tanks just being damage sponges are over. Maintaining threat because a developer emphasizes it doesn't make it interesting.

And that's the difference. "BUT LOOK AT MY AGGRO" isn't near as interesting "LOOK AT THAT 60K FELL CLEAVE"

In my opinion, the only reason anyone would prefer an aggro game over dps game is because they suck at the latter.

Axe the Tank role then. Have a Meaty DPS click at the start of a fight if they want to hold hate the entire time and remove tank swap mechanics then. No on likes Aggro control everyone likes doing damage so just roll the tank Role into DPS already. Let WAR's join the 15 minute DPS wait time already.

Maybe this way I can get DRG to become a Tank since it's odd we get 'medium' armor compared to the heavy tank gear and lighter MNK/SAM/NIN gear.

[whiskeybravo]

Axe the Tank role then. Have a Meaty DPS click at the start of a fight if they want to hold hate the entire time and remove tank swap mechanics then. No on likes Aggro control everyone likes doing damage so just roll the tank Role into DPS already. Let WAR's join the 15 minute DPS wait time already.

Maybe this way I can get DRG to become a Tank since it's odd we get 'medium' armor compared to the heavy tank gear and lighter MNK/SAM/NIN gear.

I mean... There's a pretty big gap between reducing aggro as a "mechanic" and deleting tanks entirely. All I've been saying, at least, is that aggro control isn't some magically interesting mechanic that a whole set of jobs should be designed around. You either have aggro or you don't. Wow so deep.

I understand the sentiment of wanting to be a "tank". I stopped tanking back in HW because of the tank dps meta, I figured if I was supposed act like a dps I might as well be a dps so I switched to DRG main. But at the end of the day, for every 1 person that feels that way there's at least 10 that would rather focus on DPS. It's a numbers game, and SE has to make money. They gave us what the majority of players wanted (and how they played anyways) and it's been a pretty big success. Tanks are as popular as they've ever been (even if some of it came from healer fallout), so it's not like it "doesn't work". It works a lot better, in fact, so OP should just let it go and accept the meta of tanks being a contributing member of the raid team.

[Critical-Limit]

In FF11 hate control was a big factor. You sometimes had to sub theif to trick the monster into thinking your damage is the tanks damage. Tanks use to have to spam provoke on cool down, if you slacked off you could lose hate.

This game however, hate building isn’t even something to manage anymore. Yes I know before it was just DPS stance all day. But that doesn’t mean it has to go that way. They can make hate building interesting. They just choose not to, cuz it’s easier for “Balance”.

[Nuclearducky]

*snip*

For what it's worth, I do agree that tanking in general feels less engaging. Hell, with the lack of enmity management even DPS feels bad when a tank can't pick up adds and you have nothing to do to get rid of hate on yourself. I know action pruning is supposed to remove complexity but when it removes an entire facet of combat (hate management), that's a tough pill to swallow.

[Kaedan]

I'm frankly not sure how you can just "feel like you're a dps".

I mean, if you're tanking correctly, you need to be popping defensive cooldowns, positioning, and supporting your party defensively during party-wide damage, etc. Those are the "meat and potatoes" of tanking. Aggro management never was anything of importance or enjoyment.

Literally, at most all you did was one aggro combo on single targets like bosses. In all other circumstances, nothing has changed. Tanking trash hasn't changed at all. So really, the only change in Aggro management between 4.0 and 5.0 is a set of 3 GCDs, or 5 seconds and change.

[MerlinCross]

I'm frankly not sure how you can just "feel like you're a dps".

I mean, if you're tanking correctly, you need to be popping defensive cooldowns, positioning, and supporting your party defensively during party-wide damage, etc. Those are the "meat and potatoes" of tanking. Aggro management never was anything of importance or enjoyment.

Literally, at most all you did was one aggro combo on single targets like bosses. In all other circumstances, nothing has changed. Tanking trash hasn't changed at all. So really, the only change in Aggro management between 4.0 and 5.0 is a set of 3 GCDs, or 5 seconds and change.

Well for one I'm hearing conflicting reports on healing to the point that if healing hasn't changed, you shouldn't actually NEED to be popping those CD's. The healer can totally cover for you right it's what they're supposed to do right? And if you're at a point where your CDs aren't expected or needed(Either because healing is that weird now or just simply item level) then all you're doing is playing a meaty DPS. I dunno I'm just hearing odd things about how healing is now and how easy it was to heal before so I'm quesitoning if it's due to the Heals being that strong or the CD's being that useful. Or just Item level making everything a cake walk and that's masking some people perspectives just getting conflicting things here.

Now I don't know why or how people were getting away with doing only 1 aggro combo on a boss and then never needing to use it again. Espically when they also weren't supposed to be in Tank Stance back then either from what I'm hearing so how the heck were people managing aggro when the BLM went full ham or back when SAM had stupid high damage. I'm actually wondering cause the only thing I can think of is people running with teams that actually used the aggro skills from the DPS or just had a NIN help out.

But I used Tank Stance and didn't push Damage like I was a DPS so I've already shown I'm a bad tank so what do I know.