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  1. #1
    Player
    Zoberraz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    19
    Character
    Shune Nelhah
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 80

    Disheartened healer annoyed with Shadowbringers' difficulty

    Um, hi everyone! I'm very apprehensively posting this. I kind of expect to get verbally mauled for it.

    I've been with this game since 2.1 and my main class was White Mage. I always was a terrible tank, always felt being a DPS was lacking in agency vs. group success... so, I felt like I was the most in control as a healer. White Mage, in particular. It made me feel useful, pivotal, so I enjoyed the job.

    Stormblood saw me branch out with Red Mage, who'se party utility appealed to me. I leveled Dark Knight due to its story, but still considered myself a rather hapless tank beyond normal dungeon content. With Shadowbringers, I decided to stick to tank and mostly use the Trust system, since it exposed me the least to peer pressure. Any screw-ups would be only on me, and hopefully I'd improve on my own. Dancer was the other class I leveled to 80; as many, I enjoyed how it felt as I played it.

    And now, I'm back to my White Mage. So far, I have her leveled to 74. I expected to it being like putting on an old comfortable shoe. It hasn't been. Frankly, it's kind of been awful for me so far. I found ways to enjoy Dark Knight and Dancer; but by contrast being a healer is an unmitigated disaster.

    Now, I'm sure others will turn this into a narrative of "You think WHM is bad? You haven't seen SCH/AST!". I'll admit I'm happy about the WHM's kit, and I feel for you... but that's not what I'm talking about. I mean, sure, I want things for the WHM, like for Holy to be at targeted ranged AoE to fill in the void of Aero 3 and be less risky to use; and holy spam is pretty intense on the eyes (especially considering the lower MP cost seems to encourage it)... but in general, I'm happy with WHM. But that's beyond the point I want to make.

    Healing since Shadowbringer is just so difficult! I won't claim to be the best healer ever, but I generally handled anything non-Savage/Extreme dependably. There are instances where I've felt powerful as a healer; like, keeping other parties of an alliance alive alongside my own in 24-man raids.

    But now, it just feels so grueling! There's this sense of difficulty that makes encountering a single group of enemies rather painstaking; Divine Benison and regen on the tank, drop assylum and then I try to Aero the four enemies. After 2 Aero cast, my tank is at half-health and I go "whoa" and try to double-time my heals on him. That's... 6 seconds and suddenly we're in trouble. Then I heal him - and I do have the tools to heal him - but the urgency of it is startling.

    And unforgiving. What if I felt we were doing fine, I cast a third aero, and suddenly he's only at 1/4 health thanks to a critical hit? What if I meant to cure him, mistargeted and the Cure ends up on me? (healing in a panic just on me happens; and realizing it is often too late.) What if I'm busy doing Esuna on a Poison, and he suddenly gets a critical hit? Not that I was that much of a screw-up, but there's a clear sense of 'unforgiving' being present now.
    (21)
    Last edited by Zoberraz; 07-14-2019 at 05:32 AM.

  2. #2
    Player
    Zoberraz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    19
    Character
    Shune Nelhah
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 80
    It is just so drastically more easy for things to go downhill; as if healing was walking on a tightrope the entire time. There's little room for spontaneity; either I'm a perfect healbot doing only that, or my tank dies.

    Chain pulls are worse. They will, the times we survive, take absolutely everything I have. We'll narrowly survive, when we do. It took everything - even in the kitchen sink - but the rest of the party is going to be fine and they are going to do it again, right away. Why? It don't get why. They'll go "it's fine", "I have faith in you, you can do it", "other healers are able to do it; should be okay".

    HOW?! Why can anyone justify the added risk of being under fire by a lot more enemies with AoE skills that have a pretty sharp diminishing return for a kill time that's barely any better than fighting single groups (in which I might at least be able to contribute DPS, slightly, as the mobs die and the damage dwindles down). I don't know, but everyone I come across seems to be cool with it, and the implied conclusion is:

    "Get good, scrub."

    I'm done feeling bad about it, though. I was never a great healer, but I did consider myself good. I did take some pride in it. So the conclusion I reach is: healing since the Shadowbringers expansion is stupidly hard! It's unpleasant! For me, no role feels nearly as desperate to succeed as the healer. It's stressful, and it's now reached a certain degree of being not fun for me.

    The only relief I found in dungeons are the boss fights. The boss fights feel like something I can cope with. In fact, they feel much more fair than the rest of the content leading up to them.

    I think it was a good idea to shake things up some. To undermine what complacency I might have felt to make the content more challenging. To have the blood pumping more. Sure, I understand the Devs wanting to invest healers more.

    Yet, I feel this is a step too far. I really hope the lack of breathing room, how unforgiving it feels now can be alleviated. That the experience can be made to feel less frantic and desperate.

    Maybe the Trust system will save me for now, allowing me to level my WHM without ruining the dungeon experience for other players. But then, what would be the point? The whole reason of playing WHM was to feel useful. If playing healer doesn't make me feel useful, why play the role at all? I really wanted the AF4 WHM dress, but I'm not sure it's worth it anymore. It's actually kind of depressing; and I feel discouraged enough that I was compelled to start this thread.

    So, that's about it. I said my piece. Thanks for reading.
    (18)
    Last edited by Zoberraz; 07-14-2019 at 05:33 AM.

  3. #3
    Player
    Shizzle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    38
    Character
    Incredible Violence
    World
    Bismarck
    Main Class
    Viper Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Zoberraz View Post

    HOW?! Why can anyone justify the added risk of being under fire by a lot more enemies with AoE skills that have a pretty sharp diminishing return for a kill time that's barely any better than fighting single groups (in which I might at least be able to contribute DPS, slightly, as the mobs die and the damage dwindles down).

    "Get good, scrub."


    Said it yourself, I get tired of seeing scrubs who want to dps and not do their role as a healer which was part of the reason Yoshi P said Healers werent designed for dps and I agree if you want to dps role a dps class not a support, same can be said for statics relying on healers to add dps if your dps as a whole is relying on your healers to contribute to the damage with their measly output your dps is failing your group plain and simple. Healing is easy very easy it's only hard for the derps who can't untrain that mindset of dpsing between healing now your required to do your role more often......
    (0)

  4. #4
    Player
    ForteNightshade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    3,614
    Character
    Kurenai Tenshi
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Shizzle View Post
    Said it yourself, I get tired of seeing scrubs who want to dps and not do their role as a healer which was part of the reason Yoshi P said Healers werent designed for dps and I agree if you want to dps role a dps class not a support, same can be said for statics relying on healers to add dps if your dps as a whole is relying on your healers to contribute to the damage with their measly output your dps is failing your group plain and simple. Healing is easy very easy it's only hard for the derps who can't untrain that mindset of dpsing between healing now your required to do your role more often......
    ... do you realize White Mage can currently out-DPS all four tanks, yes? Even with how weak Astro currently is, it and Scholar still combined for roughly 10-11k. Considering those numbers are roughly where half the DPS jobs are... I guess a lot of jobs contribute "measly output."
    (5)
    "Stand in the ashes of a trillion dead souls and ask the ghosts if honor matters."
    "The silence is your answer."


  5. #5
    Player
    Urthdigger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    2,670
    Character
    Eyriwaen Zirhmusyn
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Shizzle View Post
    Said it yourself, I get tired of seeing scrubs who want to dps and not do their role as a healer which was part of the reason Yoshi P said Healers werent designed for dps and I agree if you want to dps role a dps class not a support, same can be said for statics relying on healers to add dps if your dps as a whole is relying on your healers to contribute to the damage with their measly output your dps is failing your group plain and simple. Healing is easy very easy it's only hard for the derps who can't untrain that mindset of dpsing between healing now your required to do your role more often......
    Of course it's easy if you AFK half the fight or drop your biggest cures on every auto-attack. That's like saying it's easy if you just auto-attack on DPS, or that you just have to toss out a combo or two on tank and then you're free to AFK the whole fight.
    (1)

  6. #6
    Player
    LegoTechnic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    431
    Character
    Seolla Viltara
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 80
    To be honest, it's like this at the start of every expansion. Players are used to zerging as they have been since the latter part of the last one, and don't know half the mechanics, and expect to do the same in their crappy paper leveling gear so sometimes you get a party that doesn't know (or care) that the little frog-men buff the big beaters which makes your life hard. But this difficulty typically diminishes when gear ilvl increases and people are able for farm their daily tomes, both your own and your party's. As is true for most classes, encounters become easier the better your gear is, and healing becomes easier as a result.

    However your healing job is also greatly dependent on your tank's ability, and as any experienced healer will tell you there is just no helping a bad tank. Aggro control is easier, but if they aren't able to help you out with proper cooldown usage then keeping them up in large pulls can become exponentially harder. While all roles have responsibility, healers have what can be considered the most "visible" responsibility, in that your failings stand out more than something like a DPS who plays half-assed or a tank who lets a mob get away from them, so it's easy to blame failings on the healer, but remember that it's a team effort. Healers are often in the "scapegoat" role, but sometimes the party demands you carry them beyond their, and your, ability, in which case just try again.

    But for the most part understand that it will get easier in the coming weeks, as it always does. That said, you can always try a tank or DPS for a change of pace and see if you like it. Just choose one that fits the level of complexity you want.
    (37)

  7. #7
    Player
    Fawkes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    2,689
    Character
    Fawkes Macleod
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by LegoTechnic View Post
    To be honest, it's like this at the start of every expansion.
    I don't know, this is like every trash pull was designed based on running to the wall on the first pull of Bardam's. I think this is definitely worse than it's ever been.
    (14)

  8. #8
    Player
    SineNomine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    LL in 1.0, Gridania in ARR
    Posts
    14
    Character
    Chantine Sondraix
    World
    Malboro
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Fawkes View Post
    I don't know, this is like every trash pull was designed based on running to the wall on the first pull of Bardam's.
    Oh god, thats why I LIKE this expansion. I'm the type of healer that feels that if we aren't almost dying we aren't even trying. I want to be using my entire kit in pulls, that's what makes them fun instead of boring.

    I guess on the bright side, I duo with a tank and so she is the only that gets begged to pull faster, so at least I am not convincing other random tanks out there to pull like that. I'm sorry guys, I swear I don't want you to be miserable, I just don't feel that the dungeons are challenging really.
    (4)

  9. #9
    Player
    Canadane's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    7,468
    Character
    King Canadane
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Fawkes View Post
    I don't know, this is like every trash pull was designed based on running to the wall on the first pull of Bardam's. I think this is definitely worse than it's ever been.
    Levelling dungeons have always been difficult to pull to the wall.
    Doable, mind you. And they absolutely still are.
    But level cap dungeons with appropriate gear are much easier due to no sync.
    (0)

    http://king.canadane.com

  10. #10
    Player
    kartana's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    64
    Character
    Celicy Darian
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 80
    I know what you are talking about, especially the "the only relief I found in dungeons are the boss fights". But it's just that if you use all your WHM spells and still can't keep the tank healed then he is just pulling too much for his gear or the DPS aren't using AoE spells (I had this happen too). Tell him to pull less stuff and you should be good. Next time you go into a dungeon and feel like you barely need to heal on pulls (meaning you have a good tank with good gear) you can tell him to pull more. I good tank will notice after the first few pulls how much you as a group can handle and will adjust.
    (6)

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