Thread: Comments on Patch 1.21

Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

first, you are correct on invigorate. i just played it like normal and built up tp early on and didn't even look at the removal of tp cost. you are correct there. that was my own fault for not looking at a skill that was always an ability i used.

second, when i do go into a party as thm i will continue to enjoy both the class and being able to out parse most black mages that are in it, guy.

like i said many times i never said blm was bad, but that it wasn't as super powerful and vastly superior like you keep claiming. those 2 are very comparable to each other in the type of damage output they can do and the fact both have a few things that helps in a party that the other does not have.

You can out parse everyone on your server for all I care. Personal competence is not part of this.

Let me break it down for you:

As a DD there is something called a DPS ceiling. This is the highest potential level of DPS a job can achieve through means of gear, min/maxing, effective use of skills on cooldown. It is the ideal scenario for a DD to reach.

Now, often times the first obstacle to reaching the DPS ceiling is the enmity ceiling- reaching red enmity and having to slow down so as to not take hate off the tank. This is where effective use of enmity reduction skills come into play. For physical DDs, this is their primary obstacle in reaching their DPS ceiling. For mages, however, there's MP management.

When a THM/BLM manages to overcome their enmity ceiling and continues to rotate around cooldowns without slowing down so soon for hate, they hit their next obstacle: empty MP bar. This is where things get interesting. There are 2 very nice reasons as to why BLM takes the cake, even after their better enmity reduction:

1. You'll want a BRD in the party for both Ballad of Magi and Minuet of Rigor. By increasing magic accuracy to remove those pesky resists, or giving an MP regen when needed, they serve as a direct boon to the team. They also traditionally spend most of their time out ranged near the BLMs. What was it that THM spent time doing that BLM couldn't? Buffing? Yea, BRD's primary role is that and with a BRD on your team the lack of stoneskin on BLM is no longer relevant. Remember, obs are about team effort, not having 8 jacks of all trades.

2. Convert. Period. No argument against this one. No way to justify losing an instant ~2k recovery of MP.

There goes that MP wall. By switching to BLM, the THM immediately gains the ability to get past such obstacles and approach the DPS ceiling instead of getting stuck on the enmity ceiling.

I realize the theoretical tone of this post, but I assure you it's on purpose to break things down. I've been practicing based on these concepts ever since the patch, and I can assure you I've easily been outparsing my THM.

Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

I realize the theoretical tone of this post, but I assure you it's on purpose to break things down. I've been practicing based on these concepts ever since the patch, and I can assure you I've easily outparsing my THM.

how many times did i already say i am not saying blm is bad? i even stated that when i parsed both my blm and my thm i did slightly less damage on my thm.

what i said is that both have things that the other cannot do. there's been a few parties in which i have been in, just today, in which a bard was not available and i went into the darkhold to help someone get their quest started. guess which class i was asked to come on? was it black mage? no, it was thm because it can do things blm cannot do.

yes, convert is a massive help if you are straight nuking if you ever get to the point you actually need to use it. using your job properly you likely will not have that need in most occasions.

i have not once said that thm was better than blm and that i will not be using my blm. i would be crazy to state such a thing because blm does have its strong points. what i said is there are times in a party which being a thm in the party would be more beneficial than being in a party as a blm.

i know your post is theoretical. what you keep acting as i am saying is that thm is better than blm always and it should always be used. this is not what i am saying at all. what i am saying is there are times when the benefits of thm is better than the benefits of being a blm.

yes, blm does slightly more damage then thm does, but not every party is going to be about straight dps. the max dps you can push in any fight depends on the other members of your party. if the tank isn't great or mages aren't healing them properly then your dps will automatically get decreased. there are times in which you will not be relied on for straight dps and need to do something else in the party just like i was today. in those situations thm is the better option.

Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

It wasn't me who said it took us 15-20 minutes pre-patch.

I'm well aware of the gear and food/medicine buffs and I'm sure the play a role but there are very clear advantages to jobs atm that outshine simple food buffs:

MNK
Fists of Wind: Not only is Ifrit weak to wind, but Fists of Wind grant a 40% decrease to WS cooldowns with AF on as well as a very potent movement buff to make it very easy for them to escape eruptions. MNK deals a crapton of damage just due to this buff alone for Ifrit. For Moogle the extra movement speed is appreciated as well while the elemental fists stil serve the basic purpose of damaging through the armor of Whiskerwall and Ruffletuft.

Hundred Fists: May be a 15m skill, but that's once per Ifrit and in a fight where animation lock can mean death, dishing out a ton of damage via AA alone is priceless.

BLM
Freeze: Even i didn't expect the enmity down to be so potent, and I don't know exactly how it is calculated, but this is one strong and relatively quick Ancient Magic spell that reliably brings you back down to green enmity. For a DD that often deals with enmity ceilings moreso than dps ceilings, having this every 2min to rotate with the 3min Chameleon is priceless.

Convert: Get past the enmity ceiling with effective use of Freeze and Chameleon, and you'll quickly find that your MP becomes your next wall. In a fight like ifrit especially, where you don't have to worry about any adds and the stage hazards are predictable and avoidable, Convert provides for a very nice way to regain a ton of MP to continue bursting. Speaking of Burst, Convert > Burst during a combo is quite nice and the most effective use of that AM. For Moogle, whike using it may be trickier and more dependent on communication with WHMs, nobody can deny the utility of restoring MP in that fight.

WAR
Amazing choice for a tank at the moment, especially versus single target bosses.

Antagonize: Another buff to enmity to rotate with Sentinel.

Collusion: Priceless source of large enmity if communicated well.

Vengeance: Bosses tend to hit you harder than you hit them. Giving them a taste of their own medicine is always a treat. Time it with Ifrit's swipe and boost damage directly.

Might Strikes: A constant stream of criticals. Get to 3k TP and turn this on. Go apeshit. Massive damage + massive hate.

PLD
Tank with its own WHM.

Divine Veil: Great way to assist melee DPS in Ifrit, which are otherwise not very viable for the most part.

Holy Succor: See above. Also, heals a large amount when PLD casts on self as well.


Those are some things off the top of my head that speak directly about jobs and their utility without getting into gear.

If we wanna talk gear, it may be best to look at the stats on the Darklight sets. Those are job-only, and some pieces look to be better than anything achievable through other means.

Don't forget some benefits other classes have in the hell fire and moogle's attacks(since these were used already as examples). Bard for example has a 15 minute ability (battle voice) that boost 500ish-600ish HP. Combine that with a WHM SS and Protect, with Sanguine Rite and Warmonger. These are benefits classes cannot offer that make the survivability incredably greater then a group of classes can offer.