Thread: Comments on Patch 1.21

Originally Posted by Catharsis

Could you please explain to me the meaning of "O.o"? I'm sure it must be of profound importance, otherwise you wouldn't feel the need to repeat it so many times.

Allow me. "O.o" is an emoticon meant to display, through clever usage of the alphabet and punctuation, a rudimentary facial expression which intends to convey a look of confusion underlying surprise.

Originally Posted by Eagleheart

I realize that. I was also speaking in reference to future, but I think that there is another way of looking at the matter, and so, I had another question I wished to pose to you. (O.o) You mentioned earlier that your LS took 15-20 minutes to bring Ifrit down pre-1.21.

Is it not possible that you are partially conflating the damage potency of the Jobs themselves with improvements in equipment and food? Electrum Gorget is cheap with +25 ATK, a marked improvement over anything available in 1.20, and the +stat rings are also considerably above the previous maximum attainable bonuses available from rings. Further, one can have those bonuses at the same time, unlike in 1.20, where you were limited in accessories equippable at once.

There is also a large increase in available healing potency magic, and AF, while a bit low in some departments (DRG Body) also offers very noticeable increases over standard gear in 1.20, for some classes, in slots that they could not previously derive damage bonuses from (Head for instance, unless one had a Paragon's Crown.) DRG and MNK both have excellent damage options in the Head slot now, and WAR's cannot be discounted either.

Food is also much more potent now, especially mage food. Pastry Fish offer a maximum of +33 potency to offensive magic, and the more familiar Blood Currant Tart offers +24 now. Offensive medicines like Hi-Potion or Mega-Potion of INT are exceptionally good. In fact, I think I will distribute a few at our next Ifrit run and see how that goes. o.0 A Mega-Potion of INT offers +40 INT and +80 Magic Attack potency. Magic accuracy rings are now available, cheaper than pre-patch, with greater bonuses than were previously obtainable. The elemental potency torques available now far outstrip previous options, +10 potency, +20 specific element potency. (o.0 ) These are points that cannot be dismissed out of hand with regards to your group's improved kill time. Also, all of these things are available to classes, as well.

Perhaps your group should try Ifrit with classes again, and see if they rival the damage output of the Jobs. O.o

It wasn't me who said it took us 15-20 minutes pre-patch.

I'm well aware of the gear and food/medicine buffs and I'm sure the play a role but there are very clear advantages to jobs atm that outshine simple food buffs:

MNK
Fists of Wind: Not only is Ifrit weak to wind, but Fists of Wind grant a 40% decrease to WS cooldowns with AF on as well as a very potent movement buff to make it very easy for them to escape eruptions. MNK deals a crapton of damage just due to this buff alone for Ifrit. For Moogle the extra movement speed is appreciated as well while the elemental fists stil serve the basic purpose of damaging through the armor of Whiskerwall and Ruffletuft.

Hundred Fists: May be a 15m skill, but that's once per Ifrit and in a fight where animation lock can mean death, dishing out a ton of damage via AA alone is priceless.

BLM
Freeze: Even i didn't expect the enmity down to be so potent, and I don't know exactly how it is calculated, but this is one strong and relatively quick Ancient Magic spell that reliably brings you back down to green enmity. For a DD that often deals with enmity ceilings moreso than dps ceilings, having this every 2min to rotate with the 3min Chameleon is priceless.

Convert: Get past the enmity ceiling with effective use of Freeze and Chameleon, and you'll quickly find that your MP becomes your next wall. In a fight like ifrit especially, where you don't have to worry about any adds and the stage hazards are predictable and avoidable, Convert provides for a very nice way to regain a ton of MP to continue bursting. Speaking of Burst, Convert > Burst during a combo is quite nice and the most effective use of that AM. For Moogle, whike using it may be trickier and more dependent on communication with WHMs, nobody can deny the utility of restoring MP in that fight.

WAR
Amazing choice for a tank at the moment, especially versus single target bosses.

Antagonize: Another buff to enmity to rotate with Sentinel.

Collusion: Priceless source of large enmity if communicated well.

Vengeance: Bosses tend to hit you harder than you hit them. Giving them a taste of their own medicine is always a treat. Time it with Ifrit's swipe and boost damage directly.

Might Strikes: A constant stream of criticals. Get to 3k TP and turn this on. Go apeshit. Massive damage + massive hate.

PLD
Tank with its own WHM.

Divine Veil: Great way to assist melee DPS in Ifrit, which are otherwise not very viable for the most part.

Holy Succor: See above. Also, heals a large amount when PLD casts on self as well.


Those are some things off the top of my head that speak directly about jobs and their utility without getting into gear.

If we wanna talk gear, it may be best to look at the stats on the Darklight sets. Those are job-only, and some pieces look to be better than anything achievable through other means.

Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

You know what's better than Chameleon to help out with that enmity ceiling?

Chameleon + Freeze.

To each his own though. I guess everyone figures things out at their own pace.

you do realize that thm has the same number of hate reducing abilities as blm right? yes, they both have 2. thm has 2 that are cross classed and blm has one ability of their own and 1 cross classed. don't try to act like a blm has all these hate reducing abilities and thm does not.

i've parsed with both my blm with all its abilities and compared it to my thm with its cross class abilities. in ifrit i did a grand total of 1500 less damage on my thm, but as a thm i was also keeping up protect and stoneskin while just nuking as blm. so during the entire fight i did a total of 1 combo less damage on thm while keeping up buffs on the other party members. i'd say that is pretty close to even.

to each his own. i guess you never realized how to play thm. i guess you are right and everyone figures things out at their own pace.

Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

What is this 2nd ability you are referring to?

since they can both use chameleon and quelling strike that is one that both class and job has.

yes, blm does have freeze on addition to those , but if they are used properly then you will not be pulling hate from either the job or the class. thm also has the extra abilities such as invigorate to build tp for second wind and rampart and sentinel for when you do have those rare oops moments. it also has the ability to give the party additional buffs when they are needed.

in dungeons in which you are running and facing multiple mobs at once, yes, i can say blm would be more needed due to the fact it has sleepaga, but in a one on one confrontation such as ifrit i have seen very little to say that blm should be used in end game content like that over a thm. to me it's more of a pick which you prefer because i haven't seen any parse results showing that one is superior to the other.

all i am saying is that one is just as viable as the other in terms of party play. when the 2 classes were parsed on back to back runs there was very little difference in the results. i am not saying that blm is bad, but more of saying that with the additional mp abilities from bard the thm is still just as viable as it was before because it can still just as easily get hate as blm does so it's not too much of a trade off.

Originally Posted by Masamune1004

BLM has: Freeze, Chameleon, Quelling Strike

THM has: Chameleon, Quelling Strike

Am I missing one for THM? Seriously asking, my memory isn't too good.

nah i updated my post to explain. i look at freeze as a good or bad thing. it states it reduces enmity, but it was funny that i pulled hate from our tank last night using it. it could have been the dot from flare pushed me over the limit before freeze landed, but soon as it hit the mob turned and went to me. i will need to check it more to know which was the case on that so i updated each skill and what i meant by the abilities each of them have.

BLM can use Sanguine Right.
BRD - SS and protect.
WHM - SS - protect - Sentinel

Other classes should be able to take a hit from moogle song and Hellfire.

Maybe SE have plans for a class that can bring bar spells to the party, barfira for Ifrit and Moogle could be useful.

Maybe SE need to go back and retune the previous content, maybe they have plans to do this once they have finished the battle and job system updates.

BLM is super useful IMO because of freeze, I would always prefer to play BLM.

Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

thm also has the extra abilities such as invigorate to build tp for second wind and rampart and sentinel for when you do have those rare oops moments. it also has the ability to give the party additional buffs when they are needed.

i look at freeze as a good or bad thing. it states it reduces enmity, but it was funny that i pulled hate from our tank last night using it. it could have been the dot from flare pushed me over the limit before freeze landed, but soon as it hit the mob turned and went to me. i will need to check it more to know which was the case on that so i updated each skill and what i meant by the abilities each of them have.

First you demonstrate your inability to count the 3 enmity reduction abilities of BLM versus the 2 of THM. When called out on it you then try to tell me Freeze may not be reducing enmity all that much when I've repeatedly used it to bring me down from red to yellow or even green whilst doing a large amount of damage. I've also confirmed similar enmity reduction from fellow BLM players - and believe me when I say the job is very popular so there's plenty of people to confirm with.

To add to all that you're telling me that invigorate matters for THM now after they removed the TP cost of Second Wind.

Seriously, are you even trying? By all means, have fun on your THM, guy. Just know you don't speak for everyone - not even the majority at this point.

Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

First you demonstrate your inability to count the 3 enmity reduction abilities of BLM versus the 2 of THM. When called out on it you then try to tell me Freeze may not be reducing enmity all that much when I've repeatedly used it to bring me down from red to yellow or even green whilst doing a large amount of damage. I've also confirmed similar enmity reduction from fellow BLM players - and believe me when I say the job is very popular so there's plenty of people to confirm with.

To add to all that you're telling me that invigorate matters for THM now after they removed the TP cost of Second Wind.

Seriously, are you even trying? By all means, have fun on your THM, guy. Just know you don't speak for everyone - not even the majority at this point.

first, you are correct on invigorate. i just played it like normal and built up tp early on and didn't even look at the removal of tp cost. you are correct there. that was my own fault for not looking at a skill that was always an ability i used.

second, when i do go into a party as thm i will continue to enjoy both the class and being able to out parse most black mages that are in it, guy.

like i said many times i never said blm was bad, but that it wasn't as super powerful and vastly superior like you keep claiming. those 2 are very comparable to each other in the type of damage output they can do and the fact both have a few things that helps in a party that the other does not have.