Thread: Comments on Patch 1.21

Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Pointed out in my earlier post that Ifrit and Moogle's super attacks pose no threat to jobs.

I realize that. I was also speaking in reference to future, but I think that there is another way of looking at the matter, and so, I had another question I wished to pose to you. (O.o) You mentioned earlier that your LS took 15-20 minutes to bring Ifrit down pre-1.21.

Is it not possible that you are partially conflating the damage potency of the Jobs themselves with improvements in equipment and food? Electrum Gorget is cheap with +25 ATK, a marked improvement over anything available in 1.20, and the +stat rings are also considerably above the previous maximum attainable bonuses available from rings. Further, one can have those bonuses at the same time, unlike in 1.20, where you were limited in accessories equippable at once.

There is also a large increase in available healing potency magic, and AF, while a bit low in some departments (DRG Body) also offers very noticeable increases over standard gear in 1.20, for some classes, in slots that they could not previously derive damage bonuses from (Head for instance, unless one had a Paragon's Crown.) DRG and MNK both have excellent damage options in the Head slot now, and WAR's cannot be discounted either.

Food is also much more potent now, especially mage food. Pastry Fish offer a maximum of +33 potency to offensive magic, and the more familiar Blood Currant Tart offers +24 now. Offensive medicines like Hi-Potion or Mega-Potion of INT are exceptionally good. In fact, I think I will distribute a few at our next Ifrit run and see how that goes. o.0 A Mega-Potion of INT offers +40 INT and +80 Magic Attack potency. Magic accuracy rings are now available, cheaper than pre-patch, with greater bonuses than were previously obtainable. The elemental potency torques available now far outstrip previous options, +10 potency, +20 specific element potency. (o.0 ) These are points that cannot be dismissed out of hand with regards to your group's improved kill time. Also, all of these things are available to classes, as well.

Perhaps your group should try Ifrit with classes again, and see if they rival the damage output of the Jobs. O.o

Originally Posted by Eagleheart

I realize that. I was also speaking in reference to future, but I think that there is another way of looking at the matter, and so, I had another question I wished to pose to you. (O.o) You mentioned earlier that your LS took 15-20 minutes to bring Ifrit down pre-1.21.

Is it not possible that you are partially conflating the damage potency of the Jobs themselves with improvements in equipment and food? Electrum Gorget is cheap with +25 ATK, a marked improvement over anything available in 1.20, and the +stat rings are also considerably above the previous maximum attainable bonuses available from rings. Further, one can have those bonuses at the same time, unlike in 1.20, where you were limited in accessories equippable at once.

There is also a large increase in available healing potency magic, and AF, while a bit low in some departments (DRG Body) also offers very noticeable increases over standard gear in 1.20, for some classes, in slots that they could not previously derive damage bonuses from (Head for instance, unless one had a Paragon's Crown.) DRG and MNK both have excellent damage options in the Head slot now, and WAR's cannot be discounted either.

Food is also much more potent now, especially mage food. Pastry Fish offer a maximum of +33 potency to offensive magic, and the more familiar Blood Currant Tart offers +24 now. Offensive medicines like Hi-Potion or Mega-Potion of INT are exceptionally good. In fact, I think I will distribute a few at our next Ifrit run and see how that goes. o.0 A Mega-Potion of INT offers +40 INT and +80 Magic Attack potency. Magic accuracy rings are now available, cheaper than pre-patch, with greater bonuses than were previously obtainable. The elemental potency torques available now far outstrip previous options, +10 potency, +20 specific element potency. (o.0 ) These are points that cannot be dismissed out of hand with regards to your group's improved kill time. Also, all of these things are available to classes, as well.

Perhaps your group should try Ifrit with classes again, and see if they rival the damage output of the Jobs. O.o

It wasn't me who said it took us 15-20 minutes pre-patch.

I'm well aware of the gear and food/medicine buffs and I'm sure the play a role but there are very clear advantages to jobs atm that outshine simple food buffs:

MNK
Fists of Wind: Not only is Ifrit weak to wind, but Fists of Wind grant a 40% decrease to WS cooldowns with AF on as well as a very potent movement buff to make it very easy for them to escape eruptions. MNK deals a crapton of damage just due to this buff alone for Ifrit. For Moogle the extra movement speed is appreciated as well while the elemental fists stil serve the basic purpose of damaging through the armor of Whiskerwall and Ruffletuft.

Hundred Fists: May be a 15m skill, but that's once per Ifrit and in a fight where animation lock can mean death, dishing out a ton of damage via AA alone is priceless.

BLM
Freeze: Even i didn't expect the enmity down to be so potent, and I don't know exactly how it is calculated, but this is one strong and relatively quick Ancient Magic spell that reliably brings you back down to green enmity. For a DD that often deals with enmity ceilings moreso than dps ceilings, having this every 2min to rotate with the 3min Chameleon is priceless.

Convert: Get past the enmity ceiling with effective use of Freeze and Chameleon, and you'll quickly find that your MP becomes your next wall. In a fight like ifrit especially, where you don't have to worry about any adds and the stage hazards are predictable and avoidable, Convert provides for a very nice way to regain a ton of MP to continue bursting. Speaking of Burst, Convert > Burst during a combo is quite nice and the most effective use of that AM. For Moogle, whike using it may be trickier and more dependent on communication with WHMs, nobody can deny the utility of restoring MP in that fight.

WAR
Amazing choice for a tank at the moment, especially versus single target bosses.

Antagonize: Another buff to enmity to rotate with Sentinel.

Collusion: Priceless source of large enmity if communicated well.

Vengeance: Bosses tend to hit you harder than you hit them. Giving them a taste of their own medicine is always a treat. Time it with Ifrit's swipe and boost damage directly.

Might Strikes: A constant stream of criticals. Get to 3k TP and turn this on. Go apeshit. Massive damage + massive hate.

PLD
Tank with its own WHM.

Divine Veil: Great way to assist melee DPS in Ifrit, which are otherwise not very viable for the most part.

Holy Succor: See above. Also, heals a large amount when PLD casts on self as well.


Those are some things off the top of my head that speak directly about jobs and their utility without getting into gear.

If we wanna talk gear, it may be best to look at the stats on the Darklight sets. Those are job-only, and some pieces look to be better than anything achievable through other means.

Before the patch the Ifrit runs i did with my LS averaged about 15-20 minutes, now we get short order kills easily, even with members who are new to the fight. But yeah, I'm sure jobs are completely useless now.

It was not implied that they were useless, sir. (o.x )

Originally Posted by Eagleheart

It was not implied that they were useless sir. (o.x )

You said that classes were better at Ifrit than jobs. That would make jobs useless for Ifrit, no? It seems to me like you tried Ifrit once with jobs, lost, and just assumed classes were better. It is easier to beat Ifrit with jobs, it just involves a different strategy.