Opinions on Dancer?

[Renryuu]

So to keep a long post as short as I can, I've decided to be a dancer main this expansion, but I'm getting mixed messages in that some say dnc will never be wanted and others say dnc will always be wanted for parse padding. I went dancer to be a supportive style dps that is helpful to groups, but now I'm worried that I'm either gonna be just a benched job or a glorified push up bra. What do y'all think of Dancer and will it be a nice addition to groups or just a job that is either ignored or only taken for the sake of making other people's numbers look better than they really are?

[Kurando]

It's a fun job and personally it feels easy to use, but those procs just ain't going to cut it. You could go several minutes with barely any and then the next moment procs are coming from all places, it wasn't a good thing to have on SB MCH so not sure why DNC needs to have them this time around. I imagine when jobs do get some adjustments (which likely will become after the first savage tier), DNC will be a more reliable form of DPS that it isn't just support and RNG.

[kidalutz]

So to keep a long post as short as I can, I've decided to be a dancer main this expansion, but I'm getting mixed messages in that some say dnc will never be wanted and others say dnc will always be wanted for parse padding. I went dancer to be a supportive style dps that is helpful to groups, but now I'm worried that I'm either gonna be just a benched job or a glorified push up bra. What do y'all think of Dancer and will it be a nice addition to groups or just a job that is either ignored or only taken for the sake of making other people's numbers look better than they really are?

Lets put things into perspective. Back in the days when DRK absolutely sucked monkey marble a player that got worlds first clear was asked why they played Dark. Thier response was simply. "I like playing Dark Knight it's fun." world first kill with a job that before that had been ridiculed. Dancer is absolutely a class that will not be a bench warmer and it's amazingly fun to play.

[HyoMinPark]

I find DNC to be a lot of fun. It can be pretty busy at max level when you have procs from Feathers and Saber Dance flowing in, especially during your Technical Finish window. The RNG is not terrible at later levels, especially since you get a skill at level 72 to force-proc all of your Flourished abilities every 60 seconds. I personally don't understand the complaints about RNG, because the more you level the easier it gets to deal with it. But I also played SB BRD, which was another heavily-RNG job. Unlike HW/SB MCH, DNC's base combos for single-target and AOE aren't 100% RNG. Just the Flourished procs, which are not part of our combo.

It does have lower personal damage, but we don't know yet how it's rDPS will pan out to be. We won't know until the release of Savage, more than likely. It is likely that DNC will be brought for padded runs, and for runs that want to stack what raid buffs are left in this game, but we will know more about those meta, again, once Savage is released and we see more hard numbers. For the casual raider, it doesn't matter as much.

It's a fun job and personally it feels easy to use, but those procs just ain't going to cut it. You could go several minutes with barely any and then the next moment procs are coming from all places, it wasn't a good thing to have on SB MCH so not sure why DNC needs to have them this time around. I imagine when jobs do get some adjustments (which likely will become after the first savage tier), DNC will be a more reliable form of DPS that it isn't just support and RNG.

The DNC RNG isn't bad at all the closer you get to 80. Sometimes you have so many procs during a Technical Finish window you can't fit them all in there. At 72, you learn Flourish, which force procs all 5 of your Flourished skills, and you can use it every 60 seconds. So it will always be available during burst windows (e.g., Trick Attack, Technical Finish, Chain, Litany, Battle Voice) for you to push out damage. At 76, you get your Esprit gauge and Saber Dance. During Technical Finish windows where you're gaining Esprit from the entire party, I find myself wishing Saber Dance was oGCD because sometimes I get so much Esprit my gauge hits max becfore I can empty it on the skill.

It's only at lower levels where RNG seems slow, I guess, but I didn't find DNC to be any worse than RDM VerRNG, personally. Especially once you're able to force proc with Flourish.

[Kurando]

snip

I did get DNC to lvl 80 though still I think there are one too many processes, perhaps at least Fan Dance III could be guaranteed or maybe something else (without resorting to Flourish). Rising Windmill and Bloodshower also require you to have targets around you (to proc) so sometimes you have to time these to avoid aoes and whatnot. We get Flourish every 60secs which is all good, and yeah we can end with a lot of Espirit being generated at times but there is a lot of RNG without a doubt and RDM at least has reliable burst damage when you get it.

[Ceallach]

It's a fun job and personally it feels easy to use, but those procs just ain't going to cut it. You could go several minutes with barely any and then the next moment procs are coming from all places, it wasn't a good thing to have on SB MCH so not sure why DNC needs to have them this time around. I imagine when jobs do get some adjustments (which likely will become after the first savage tier), DNC will be a more reliable form of DPS that it isn't just support and RNG.

You get all five procs once per minute via Flourish, so it's more about managing feathers while hitting procs as you build up into your Flourish/Devilment window.

Personally, I think it's really fun. It feels too squishy, but that does make sense for dancer. I feel like there should be at least one more thing you can do with your Dance Partner, and Curing Waltz should probably not be based on Mind when you're a DPS.

[Kurando]

snip.

See my previous post. I just don't want DNC going down the SB MCH route of RNG having too much control on your burst.

Curing Waltz should probably not be based on Mind when you're a DPS.

Isn't it based on the job's primary stat like Second Wind, so DEX for Dancer? (I mean if it was based on Mind it would restore less than SMN's Physick as the potency is lower than that spell and Waltz definitely restores more!).

[YanderePrincess]

Curing Waltz should probably not be based on Mind when you're a DPS.

It's based on the exact same thing as Second Wind. Honestly, the only thing that hinders Curing Waltz's effectiveness from what I'm seeing is that it's not especially needed because the healers can handle the healing without any significant trouble. This might change more when we get Savage, especially during progression, though, and that 400 potency AoE heal every minute will see much more appreciation. As it is, it's still at least one less Medica/etc needed after a stack mechanic, which is hardly a bad thing.

[YanderePrincess]

As for DNC in comparison to SB MCH, I don't think there is a comparison. Like, I can see why you'd be concerned, but from playing both it and SB MCH, the difference while similar at a glance are like night and day in practice. You always have a combo to do, even if you're getting no procs. This alone, to me, makes a world of difference in the feel. The fact that the procs aren't technically part of the combo further eliminates the problem from SB MCH where you had to get the first proc just to have a chance at proccing the last part of the combo. Flourish also feels far better and provides far more than the awkwardness that was Reload/Ammo on MCH. The only issue I have with DNC right now, aside from my own stupidity making me dash off arenas, is it kinda feels like Saber Dance should also have a 50% chance to generate a fourfold feather, since using it takes away from your chance to generate flourishes/feathers. But that's less of a complaint and more just something that feels like it'd be a QoL improvement. I'm fine with how it is now. It just feels to me like it'd make more sense for it to have that chance to give a feather.

[Xelanar]

My opinion on Dancer is... it's fun!
I played Machinist during heavensward, so I'm also comfortable with those 50% chance proccs. I even like them a lot and prefer those to any fixed 1-2-3 combo/rotation that many other jobs are based on.

On a side note though: You are definitely going to be a 'glorified push-up bra', because that is what support oriented jobs are supposed to be. They can manage on their own, but they really shine when buffs are aligned to other party member's burst phases.

I read something in a different dancer thread that made a good point:
Dancers will be loved by raid groups who know what they are doing, time their buffs together and play organized. On groups where everyone does its own thing they will however be wasted potential.