5.0 SMN: Increasing the skill gap

[ShariusTC]

tbf, SMN rotation become more complicate in this xpac, and the AoE which SMN is known to strong for now is not very important anymore since every job and their mother now can spam crapload of AoE skill while SMN stuck with broken rotation

[Taranok]

Honestly, I kinda would love to see them start from scratch with SMN. I don't mean literally make every ability different, but pick a focal point of SMN and rebuild the job around that one concept--making everything work in harmony with that focus.

And that focus should be the demi-primals. It should be the first major mechanic introduced to the class no later than level 30 (preferably sooner) and the class should be built around summoning and using GCDs/oGCDs to command them to do stuff. ShB improved the demi-primal aspect of the class....mostly, losing scarlet flames or wyrmwaves because of movement certainly isn't helping, but the class was improved in this aspect more than ruined.

Now this gameplay just needs to be turned into the class as a whole and the rotations built around it instead of it being tacked on. ShB is the closest SMN has been to feeling like a SMN, but it has a lot of legacy things just flat out ruining it at this point that need to be addressed.

[NovaBismarck]

Honestly there are a lot of problems with lack of consistency in the rotation. I do agree not being able to push phx/bahamut is a huge problem. With our current low dps it's obvious. I feel like they had a lot of good ideas. For example, pulling bane out of aetherflow. However, in practice the rotation does not feel good.

I'm a creature of habit, I've played summoner since 2005 starting in ffxi. I've seen all versions of summoner over the years. Let's say I wasn't married to summoner, I'd be swapping to blm or some other dps because honestly there's little incentive to stay right now. We get long cast times at interval but no major reward for those casts. IMO, there's likely one thing too many to juggle. It makes it a little less fluent compared to other classes who aren't dealing with so much. Can I juggle the extra commands to toggle. Yes, but I will almost exclusively play summoner and dedicate to the work it takes. However, considering the amount of glitch involved with pet interactions and demis, pushing that many buttons feels like an error to me. It's just more that can go wrong. I honestly can understand the trouble that the developers struggle with on our class. It's complicated. Ideally, the majority of our damage should likely come from pet commands and bahamut and phx. However, in practice with the glitchiness of pets that'll have to be handled very carefully. At this point, I just want a rotation that is fun, puts out good damage and doesn't feel like a chore. I wish I could give better feedback on how to fix it, but overall I'm not logical enough to handle that level of input. However, I do feel not being able to push phases is a problem. DWT, Bahamut, Phx, R3 phase without any flexibility will likely always give grief. I personally don't care if they gut the current rotation, I'm not in love with it. Overall, phoenix feels fun. I'm indifferent to the rest.

Honestly, the current rotation is very punishing to casual players. So yes, the skill ceiling is high. The cost of failing to perform is high as well.

[Taranok]

At the very least, Nova, not having a consistent rotation is actually a flair of SMN I'd like to see somewhat kept. It's kind of had an inconsistent rotation basically since HW, and it changing styles as it progresses through the rotation is actually nice, since most rotations are very consistent and stable. In fact, the nature of how a summoner works in a grand FF sense suggests it should have a rotation that constantly changes and isn't consistent at all times, since different primals should behave in different styles just innately.

However, inconsistency should not justify grating or grinding. The rotation should be, if nothing else, consistently smooth. Which the rotation is anything but.

[Cled-cat]

While levelling I actually enjoyed Summoner, but at max level and in extreme trials it’s an absolute nightmare trying to compete with other DPS without tunnel visioning. There are WAY too many different timers and buttons to keep track of that it feels more stressful than it’s worth to play. Instead of feeling rewarding it now just feels more messy and chaotic. It just feels like a flurry of buttons and not much bang for your buck. It really needs to be trimmed down to basics and built up from scratch. It’s such a mess of multiple themes, gauges and timers it just needs to be rebuilt from the beginning.

[Aomine1992]

the rotation is just so freaking convoluted now, I love the direction we are going but this execution is pretty distasteful but it’s probably just growing pains for me that is.

I do wish the Demi summons would just sit still while I’m doing mechanics.

[SwarleyMcSwarls]

I'll agree about the demi summon's A.I. but the rotation feels very smooth to me. Rather enjoying this iteration of smn...

[Angry_Evil]

I'll agree about the demi summon's A.I. but the rotation feels very smooth to me. Rather enjoying this iteration of smn...

LOL it will feel smooth until you discover that demis are bugged and don't do WWs if you attack right after you summoned them so you actually need to wait and not attack until it summoned and can do WW... I'm not even talking about all the clipping from optimal rotations. As always "intended" way of playing summoner is bad and people won't play like that.
Also do you really enjoy it tho? Do you REALLY like losing dps to moving or weaving? Do you like all the r4 stacking to weave and BLM cosplay while spamming ruin 3?

I changed up the rotation a lot, but it makes a lot of sense and I love it more than ever. You definitely need some extra spell speed and be ready to play it fast. The changes all do make sense. Focusing on the timers and why they are that way help. Ruination is key to the dos and i feel rules the rotation.

Think what you want but fester ruins do not make any sense...
How does sps help exactly?

[Alsandair_Sloan]

I changed up the rotation a lot, but it makes a lot of sense and I love it more than ever. You definitely need some extra spell speed and be ready to play it fast. The changes all do make sense. Focusing on the timers and why they are that way help. Ruination is key to the dos and i feel rules the rotation.

[RadicalPesto]

there really doesn't feel like there's an actual reason for summon bahamut and dreadwyrm trance to be separate phases anymore