Low level gameplay: A growing problem

[kidalutz]

New game +

aside from that EVERY MMO has the same low level experience

[Makeda]

aside from that EVERY MMO has the same low level experience

ESO doesn’t but also reveals that the solution is radically extreme. At launch ESO had these kinds of problems, so i their One-Tamriel patch they made everything scale to max level. You do still have to unlock abilities but the system there is different so you don’t unlock with levels you unlock by spending skill points which you can earn by exploring and finding skill shards or levels or both.
They essentially made “level” a moot concept for 90% of the content.

That is how you solve this, but many will feel the solution is worse than the problem. ESO losr a lot of players when they did it, but then gained back 10-100 times more new ones.

So you can fix this issue, but it will cost you most of the current player base and there is no guarantee you can find new ones like ESO did.

So how might this look in FFXIV? Scale ALL instances content and all FATES... UP... to max level. Scale people that enter them up as well. Can SE do it?

Yes...

This would be essentially like making the whole game scale the way PotD and HoH do.
But how many people would unsub if they did that?

[Mugear_bahamut]

As I mentioned in another thread, the boringness with synced instances can be solved by limiting potency instead of limiting skills when synced.
Although some harassment might come from leveled players to first-time players(due to lack of skills), so SE obviously doesn't implement this.
I still hope they do this because the main reason for this boringness everyone suffers from is the lack of skills.
In altering this, you get to train with the same complete skill set you do at max/higher levels even though the potency is minimized.

I hope this comes off right lol

Edit:
If anyone is wondering how this can be done, basically, you take a skill potency(ex. 800) and you are leveled max(ex. 80),
you divide the skill potency 800 by level count 80 andit goes --> 800 / 80 = 10
So that skill potency will be "10" at level 1. Let's say from level 80 you sync to a level 55 dungeon...
You take that level 1 skill potency "10" and multiply it by dungeon level (54) --> 10 x 55 = 550
Therefore, that skill's potency will be "550" in a level 55 dungeon.
All this while your skillset is a level 80 skillset with the potency reduced.
It will be just like doing a level 80 dungeon at a low level!

The disparity with noobs and high-level players will certainly be noticeable if you have different skill sets and the same potency.
The solution to this is to leave the low level potency for unsynced players as it is right now and only do this math with synced players.
This way, low-leveled players will have higher potency to make up for the lack of skills.

[Mistyregions]

New game +

aside from that EVERY MMO has the same low level experience

Say that last part louder, for the people in the back!

Has anyone played a MMO where you get a full kit of skills right off the bat? You know why we need to trickle feed skills in? Because you master the class as you go. You get comfortable with one set, then we add another button, then another.

Why am I correct? I have played with to many people who buy skips and don't even know the core rotation let alone slamming them with something like MCH.

[Lissyl]

You know why we need to trickle feed skills in? Because you master the class as you go. You get comfortable with one set, then we add another button, then another.

Why am I correct? I have played with to many people who buy skips and don't even know the core rotation let alone slamming them with something like MCH.

People have told me I'm dumb because I think this is a good way to learn. That you can just 'read all the skills and figure it out'. And maybe that works for them, I dunno. But for me, the slow way works very well. I understand the people who want all the stuff now so they can rush off - they're totally valid and that's a fine way to play. But I'll never be that person. I want to level a few combat classes, a stack of gathering classes, and all the crafters all at once. Slow and steady makes the game enjoyable. Maybe a good solution to this 'problem' is an upfront choice at character creation, like a tortoise and a hare or something? Do you want fast action or slow and steady? Let the player and their playstyle decide.

Just my thoughts.

[MrKusakabe]

Has anyone played a MMO where you get a full kit of skills right off the bat? You know why we need to trickle feed skills in? Because you master the class as you go. You get comfortable with one set, then we add another button, then another.

I agree on this one. I remember with a smile (yes, I do smile right now while typing) that I had a flowchart for the first Red Mage spells and how/when to get into melee and all that. Now it's all muscle memory. I also yelled in joy when reaching level 54 and the Vercure icon sneaked into my skillset without my notice. A couple of days later, when I learned when to use Vercure without losing much DPS but still override my mistakes/healer issues, the sexy Verraise icon found its place above Vercure. The same with Jolt, Jolt II and impact. My Lalafell literally learned how to get better at red magic, and it felt so good. Instant full skillbar or within 2 days? Lame. And anti-climactic. And not very logical lore-wise.

However, the very first dungeons often have a weird skill problem when you lack a finisher. E.g. on Red Mage again, I often can Corps-A-Corps, but not Replacement. So I dash in, do my one-skill melee rotation and then...back up by walking.

Maybe they should trickle feed skills but in reasonable bunches/sets that make sense.

As healer, I think it's even more important to realise you start with small, single-target spells and then you get a small AoE heal. Now you will learn about emnity, mana cost etc. and why you whould use which spell in what situation. So many White Mages out there that AoE spam to heal up a party and I can watch the emnity shift with every cast - instead of single-target healing us which is much safer. At this point I often think that these people just bought potions and rushed/skipped the learning process you talk about. Before we could control our faeries better, there were so many Scholars that had their Eos/Selene on auto-pilot and the first encounter made her AoE heal. Because they probably never knew they can actually stop that. But how was that important? Because when you are limited in skills, you are happy with the little what you have.

Sincerely,

[PyurBlue]

You know why we need to trickle feed skills in? Because you master the class as you go. You get comfortable with one set, then we add another button, then another.

It's fine if you learn that way but it's not necessarily the best way of mastering a class. Even if it's helpful to pickup one skill at a time, pacing can change things significantly. How long does it take to adapt to having 2-3 buttons? I feel like the first 15 levels can be skipped entirely without issue. I know that whenever a new class is added to FF14 I avoid roulette specially to avoid being level synced. I queue directly for the highest level dungeons I can so I can take in the class skills as a hole and properly account for them. It hasn't caused me any problems diving into a class at 30, 50, or 60. I greatly prefer it to starting at level 1. Even when I was a new player, skill pacing felt extremely slow.

Why am I correct? I have played with to many people who buy skips and don't even know the core rotation let alone slamming them with something like MCH.

Out of curiosity have you tried to find skip players that understand their class? I've run into some that have bought skips for their first class and took the time to learn. They're not experts, but basic rotations don't take long to grasp. I don't think skipping to high levels is a problem. It's all about a player's willingness to learn.

[FoxyAreku]

I legit feel like over half the quests pre-heavensward could be pruned and nothing meaningful would be lost. Way too much busy work.

[gumas]

I legit feel like over half the quests pre-heavensward could be pruned and nothing meaningful would be lost. Way too much busy work.

i also feel like the dev need to put a force "summary" or something like "previously on ARR arc" to anyone who decide to use jump pot and skip the entire story...

only to break the mood and ask to everyone/party/guildy "who is this guy, why this guy so important" like... you decide to skip the story and now you asking? really annoy me sometimes.

[seraf]

Low level content is supposed to be slow the game is teaching you mechanics as you level and gives you new skills over time to learn your rotation throughout the MSQ. Why are people in such a rush to reach endgame in an MMO-JRPG