Differences between English and Japanese MSQ Dialogue (bit of a rant)

[Clover_Blake]

Anyway, I'm going to nitpick your examples. Lyna is complaining about how awful and unfair things are, but in her own way. She's spiraling into depression by stating how she's alive to mourn those who were lost, whom she failed to protect. If you have not heard this scene in English, I highly recommend you do. Spoilers, naturally.

From the bits I've seen in your video (I hadn't watched the dub before), the character is somehow different. English Lyna seems to play tough, she replies directly to you and she sounds really pissed. Japanese one sounds more devastated than angry (albeit she's angry as well), she doesn't even reply to you when you try to help her. She just curses and half cries to herself, and looks the most fragile she's been.

Putting aside how the English voice actress sounds nothing like the Japanese one, was it really necessary to also change the script for the mere sake of changing it? The original scene was not bad for it to need a change.

The Exarch is quoting a certain someone from his dream. Once again, spoilers.

Oh, I see, I didn't remember that. But the thing is that the original one is not quoting anyone, as far as I know. He just sounded like he was having some sort of nightmare, he sounded disoriented. Why was it necessary to change that, other than because the translator thought it'd be cool to write their own scene?

I have no idea about Estinien, as I do not remember when it played. If all he said was "hmmph" then it's probably nothing important.

I can only guess that it wasn't important for the translators, but would it hurt them to translate the script? OxO;

I also don't recall when Minfillia calmly asks us X question, but depending on when it plays, chances are it could be due to character development reasons.

I quoted that part for my friend back when I watched it, so I can paste it:

JAPANESE MINFILIA:
"U-um, are you alright? If you feel tired, maybe you should rest..." (sounds concerned and hesitant, clumsy as to not knowing what to do to help or where the problem lies).

TRANSLATION:
"You have something on your mind. What is it?" (looks quite direct, calm, and business level. A sentence that Y'shtola or any other Scion could have said).

(Among many, many other sentences that were changed).

Translators aren't supposed to decide on character development. It's not their place, they are not the story writters. So I personally wish they could try to deliver the original story, and not their particular vision of it.

EDIT / PS: For the record, I'm not asking for super literal translations, adapting is alright. What I'd like is just for the text meaning and the character's personality to not change.

[Nestama]

From the bits I've seen in your video (I hadn't watched the dub before), the character is somehow different. English Lyna seems to play tough, she replies directly to you and she sounds really pissed. Japanese one sounds more devastated than angry (albeit she's angry as well), she doesn't even reply to you when you try to help her. She just curses and half cries to herself, and looks the most fragile she's been.

Putting aside how the English voice actress sounds nothing like the Japanese one, was it really necessary to also change the script for the mere sake of changing it? The original scene was not bad for it to need a change.

And that's why I like the English Lyna more. She's a leader, she can't break down (possibly) in front of her subordinates, who likely look up to her in the worst of times (build morale, if you will). She has to be strong for them... but of course that's hard for her to do as she laments the loss of those she tried to save.

Lyna is also voiced by an Icelandic actress. The English localisation team did what FFXII did by giving the Viera their own accents.

Oh, I see, I didn't remember that. But the thing is that the original one is not quoting anyone, as far as I know. He just sounded like he was having some sort of nightmare, he sounded disoriented. Why was it necessary to change that, other than because the translator thought it'd be cool to write their own scene?

Does it matter? It has no plot importance and it's a neat call back.

I can only guess that it wasn't important for the translators, but would it hurt them to translate the script? OxO;

The script they write is original, as is the Japanese, French and German script. If I'm right about this, they're (including the JP localisation team) not directly translating the storyboard/authors work. Basically, you shouldn't say that the Japanese script is the original script. All scripts are the original. They're just slightly different so they work for the locale they're written for... assuming I'm right about this.

I quoted that part for my friend back when I watched it, so I can paste it:

JAPANESE MINFILIA:
"U-um, are you alright? If you feel tired, maybe you should rest..." (sounds concerned and hesitant, clumsy as to not knowing what to do to help or where the problem lies).

TRANSLATION:
"You have something on your mind. What is it?" (looks quite direct, calm, and business level. A sentence that Y'shtola or any other Scion could have said).

(Among many, many other sentences that were changed).

Translators aren't supposed to decide on character development. It's not their place, they are not the story writters. So I personally wish they could try to deliver the original story, and not their particular vision of it.

When exactly does that play, though? I would like to know the context of the scene.

[Clover_Blake]

And that's why I like the English Lyna more.

And I like the Japanese Lyna more, but I believe we aren't discussing our personal tastes but the accuracy of the translations.

Does it matter? It has no plot importance and it's a neat call back.

It matters to me that translators change the script whenever they want, and it's the point of this whole thread.

The script they write is original, as is the Japanese, French and German script. If I'm right about this, they're (including the JP localisation team) not directly translating the storyboard/authors work. Basically, you shouldn't say that the Japanese script is the original script. All scripts are the original. They're just slightly different so they work for the locale they're written for... assuming I'm right about this.

...?
I'm not sure I'm following. This is a Japanese game, the original scripters are Japanese, and every other language needs to be translated from one original script. They even explained the process of translating from Japanese to English during one of the Fanfests. A translation is not an original script, it's a translation ;
But I'm a bit confused here and perhaps there's some info that I lack.

When exactly does that play, though? I would like to know the context of the scene.

I don't remember the exact scene, but if the Japanese script shows Minfilia with a certain type of personality at that point of the story, it means that's the personality she's supposed to have. Otherwise we go into Haurchefant territory, where the translators decided to make a different character out of him.

This might be cool with some people, but some of us would rather the translation to be as accurate as possible (not necessarily literal, as I said; just accurate).

[Nestama]

And I like the Japanese Lyna more, but I believe we aren't discussing our personal tastes but the accuracy of the translations.

Well it is accurate, like it or not. You said Lyna is complaining about how things are awful and unfair in Japanese. She's doing exactly that in English. She is lamenting that it's awful and unfair that she failed in protecting those she tried to save.

It matters to me that translators change the script whenever they want, and it's the point of this whole thread.

It's an extremely minor detail. In Japanese he could be having a nightmare about a certain point in the {you know where}, while in English he's dreaming about the conclusion of the {you know what}.

...?
I'm not sure I'm following. This is a Japanese game, the original scripters are Japanese, and every other language needs to be translated from one original script. They even explained the process of translating from Japanese to English during one of the Fanfests. A translation is not an original script, it's a translation ;
But I'm a bit confused here and perhaps there's some info that I lack.

Turns out I'm wrong about this bit. Regardless, we know that the localisation teams work closely together with everyone. So if there are some things you see and don't like (that are not mistranslations), just remember that it was given the okay by everyone, including the original writer.

I don't remember the exact scene, but if the Japanese script shows Minfilia with a certain type of personality at that point of the story, it means that's the personality she's supposed to have. Otherwise we go into Haurchefant territory, where the translators decided to make a different character out of him.

This might be cool with some people, but some of us would rather the translation to be as accurate as possible (not necessarily literal, as I said; just accurate).

Then I can't really argue on this. Minfillia throughout the story in English was been a shy and timid girl, with some points of being confident and brave, or needing a shoulder to vent on. Even after a certain point in the story, she'll raise concerns... but then gets shut down (this is big near ending spoilers. Do not click if you haven't reached the final zone).

I am going to argue that Haurchefant's personality wasn't completely changed, but toned down (he's still into the WoL, but not to the point of wanting to spend "quality time" with them, based on what I've heard). I have a feeling that if the localisation teams were working closely with the Japanese team back then, Haurchefant would probably have been what we had. Speaking of... what is JP Haurchefant like in HW? Was his supposed desire to 'bed' with the WoL toned down as it was for the other languages?

I think it's cool with most people, as only a minority will raise concerns with inconsistencies and the majority having no idea about them, or simply not caring as the localisation is perfectly fine.

[Tsukino]

The script they write is original, as is the Japanese, French and German script. If I'm right about this, they're (including the JP localisation team) not directly translating the storyboard/authors work. Basically, you shouldn't say that the Japanese script is the original script. All scripts are the original. They're just slightly different so they work for the locale they're written for... assuming I'm right about this.

You are not right about this. A while back there was something posted by Koji Fox about how the English team and himself specifically work much closer with the Japanese team and are able to offer suggestions and work on things that will be used across all versions of the game - the specific examples at the time were titles and the language used by dragons. While this is much more direct involvement than localization teams usually get (which is often zero), for some reason a lot of people misinterpreted this to mean that they somehow co-write the story and the English version is somehow "just as original" which is patently false. The writers are Japanese and the other localization teams translate and then edit the story dialogue from the original scripts.

Again, they may have a greater ability to go back and say "hey this line doesn't seem to be consistent with this previous scene" and make all the versions better and more consistent for it. But they don't all sit in a room together and write in 2-4 languages at the same time, that would be ridiculous.

[Knahli]

JAPANESE MINFILIA:
"U-um, are you alright? If you feel tired, maybe you should rest..." (sounds concerned and hesitant, clumsy as to not knowing what to do to help or where the problem lies).

TRANSLATION:
"You have something on your mind. What is it?" (looks quite direct, calm, and business level. A sentence that Y'shtola or any other Scion could have said).

When exactly does that play, though? I would like to know the context of the scene.

I don't remember the exact scene, but if the Japanese script shows Minfilia with a certain type of personality at that point of the story, it means that's the personality she's supposed to have..

Then I can't really argue on this.

If memory serves, I believe the scene you two are talking about is:

...when everyone is discussing Y'shtola's leap into the pit. Ryne looks towards the WoL and notices they are quiet and possibly thinking about something. She asks after them and the WoL gets the prompt that lets them mention that they suspect Y'shtola may have used Flow again.