Differences between English and Japanese MSQ Dialogue (bit of a rant)

[Krotoan]

Being common doesn't make it any less stupid. This isn't some obscure, foreign figure of speech we're talking about here. We're talking about food. There is absolutely no good or sane reason to edit footage frame by frame to replace food. It's obnoxious, doesn't make the work of fiction any more relatable, and is a flat-out insult to the untranslated material.

There's an example of this reversed in the pixar movie "Inside Out". In the US it's common for kids to dislike broccoli, in japan it's much more common for kids to not like bell peppers. In the US version baby Riley is being fed broccoli which Disgust rejects, in japan it was changed to bell peppers to be more relatable to the audience.

You might consider it stupid, but the idea is to be the most relatable to the largest audience. Most english speaking countries large user bases aren't intimitely familiar with Rice balls as a staple but will instantly recognize and have experience with a doughnut.

[DumdogsWorld]

There's an example of this reversed in the pixar movie "Inside Out". In the US it's common for kids to dislike broccoli, in japan it's much more common for kids to not like bell peppers. In the US version baby Riley is being fed broccoli which Disgust rejects, in japan it was changed to bell peppers to be more relatable to the audience.

You might consider it stupid, but the idea is to be the most relatable to the largest audience. Most english speaking countries large user bases aren't intimitely familiar with Rice balls as a staple but will instantly recognize and have experience with a doughnut.

So...we have to alter stories to be more relatable, now? Just because you don't know about something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Where do we draw the line? Should we remove fictional food from fantasy franchises because people might not know what they are?

Just...don't mess with the story. It's the logical thing to do.

[Krotoan]

So...we have to alter stories to be more relatable, now? Just because you don't know about something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Where do we draw the line? Should we remove fictional food from fantasy franchises because people might not know what they are?

Just...don't mess with the story. It's the logical thing to do.

... Yes? There's being faithful to the source material and then there's making it relatable (or palatable) to the target audience. For instance Dragonball. English versions refer to dying as "Going to another dimension", mainly because we coddle our kids (the target audience) and more parents would be unlikely to let their kids watch a show if it forced them to explain death. By changing the translation and the meaning the cartoon appeals to a broader audience, gets more popular, makes more money and is therefore more successful.

You can still watch the originals with subtitles if you want the "real" experience, but calling the changes stupid just ignores that a big reason these are being "officially" localized to profit from their re-release.

[DumdogsWorld]

Snip

Broader audiences aren't always a good thing. I'm sure porn companies would make a lot more money making their stuff friendlier for kids. Or not.

Dragon Ball Z isn't a show for kids. That's something the dubbing companies did. Just...arrrggghh...

[Krotoan]

Broader audiences aren't always a good thing. I'm sure porn companies would make a lot more money making their stuff friendlier for kids. Or not.

Dragon Ball Z isn't a show for kids. That's something the dubbing companies did. Just...arrrggghh...

Dragon Ball (all of them) is absolutely a show for kids. It always has been in japan. The problem is the western world considers a lot of the topics it covers to be taboo for children, so we get censoring and edits.

... you.. really gonna go with the porn comparison.. for kids cartoons reaching wider audiences?

[DumdogsWorld]

... you.. really gonna go with the porn comparison.. for kids cartoons reaching wider audiences?

"When in a debate, attack the premise, not the arguments."

Dragon Ball is not a cartoon for kids, hence why I made the comparison. This has nothing to do with taboos. Japanese 'cartoons' very much resemble western cartoons - they are much more juvenile. It may have been intended for teens, but teens are not kids.

[Krotoan]

"When in a debate, attack the premise, not the arguments."

Dragon Ball is not a cartoon for kids, hence why I made the comparison. This has nothing to do with taboos. Japanese 'cartoons' very much resemble western cartoons - they are much more juvenile. It may have been intended for teens, but teens are not kids.

Your argument is "well if we could make the audience for PORN bigger it'd make more money." well... yeah, but.. morals? How does this compare equally to swapping out a jelly doughnut for a rice ball like the original comparison? This isn't questionable morality, it's localization.

Ask a Japanese person if dragonball is a kids cartoon. In my experience most of them consider it pre-teenage to teenager content. Kids. Maybe my definition of kids is too broad, but I remember watching DBZ when I was 10-ish along with all my elementary school friends. It's not like it was an entirely different thing than dragonball either, Goku is just bigger.

[DumdogsWorld]

This isn't questionable morality, it's localization.

You don't consider changing a story morally bad? What if the audience wants to see it as it appears originally? Why do these dubbing companies feel like it's up to them to decide that?

Yes, as you've pointed out, I'm not a businessman. But when I see something different than the writers/author/etc originally intended, I get really annoyed. If I don't know what a rice ball is, I'll look it up. I don't need to be treated like an idiot.

If you can't understand that...well...oh well...

[Exitos]

Your argument is "well if we could make the audience for PORN bigger it'd make more money." well... yeah, but.. morals? How does this compare equally to swapping out a jelly doughnut for a rice ball like the original comparison? This isn't questionable morality, it's localization.

Ask a Japanese person if dragonball is a kids cartoon. In my experience most of them consider it pre-teenage to teenager content. Kids. Maybe my definition of kids is too broad, but I remember watching DBZ when I was 10-ish along with all my elementary school friends. It's not like it was an entirely different thing than dragonball either, Goku is just bigger.

Well..... There IS a big difference between Dragonball and Dragonball Z if i am allowed to interfere here While the original Dragonball was all about fun and being intentended as "Gag-Anime", Dragonball Z took a sudden change to way more sirious topics. Suddenly there where hole citys or even the planet distroyed and a lot of people die.

[Krotoan]

You don't consider changing a story morally bad? What if the audience wants to see it as it appears originally? Why do these dubbing companies feel like it's up to them to decide that?

Yes, as you've pointed out, I'm not a businessman. But when I see something different than the writers/author/etc originally intended, I get really annoyed. If I don't know what a rice ball is, I'll look it up. I don't need to be treated like an idiot.

If you can't understand that...well...oh well...

So you are figuring you know that the authors HAD to have that be a riceball and they weren't just using it because it was their cultural norm and if it can interchangeably be used with something else and convey the same meaning or implication it still should be kept as something that might confuse a foreign audience because "dangit people should have to research to enjoy cartoons"?

Changing a story to make it more relatable exposes more people to the story in the first place. Once interested people can (and will) go search out the "original" version, something they wouldn't even have engaged in if they experienced something confusing or unfamiliar.

I don't consider the moral weight of changing a cartoon to cater to local audiences on the same level as having porn cater to underage people. no.

Well..... There IS a big difference between Dragonball and Dragonball Z if i am allowed to interfere here While the original Dragonball was all about fun and being intentended as "Gag-Anime", Dragonball Z took a sudden change to way more sirious topics. Suddenly there where hole citys or even the planet distroyed and a lot of people die.

People still died in DB. They even explored the fact that Goku killed his own adoptive parent. They showed Goku ripping through and killing people, people having limbs broken and suffering greatly on screen. They had nudity and perversion allusions. While the newer threats did increase the possible damage it was more because of the insane power creep necessary to keep them a relevant threat than it being more "grown up". I would argue that content wise Z is no "worse" than the original.