Differences between English and Japanese MSQ Dialogue (bit of a rant)

[Clover_Blake]

I feel you OP, this has been annoying me as well. Limited as my Japanese is, even I noticed all the unnecessary liberties the translators were taking. And the changes are beyond "things that sound similar" or "things that need to be adapted to a different culture". Sometimes characters say the opposite, or something simply unrelated, or the differences are enough to change their personalities.

Almost every sentence was butchered, but here are some examples that I remember:
-Minfilia asks you, all worried and a bit shy, if you're feeling alright and need a rest, translated as her being calmly interested in knowing what's crossing your mind, which also made her sound like any other Scion. Was it too hard or culturaly unacceptable to make her sound concerned when she is?

-Lyna openly cursing how unfair and awful things are, translated as her saying "I'm fine", because apparently, English Lyna tries to be less open about her emotions instead of just throwing them at whoever is there to listen.

-The Exarch waking from a dream, confused and disorientated, and saying something strange like "Eh...? You...? Why?", translated as "the future is where my destiny awaits : DDDD"

-But my favourite was, without a doubt, Urianger or Estinien (can't remember which) saying a long sentence that was translated as "mhph...". Sorry, man, one cares about what you've got to say.

There's no excuse for any of the mistranslations. It simply feels like the translators wanted to write their own story. I personally want to know what the original story is telling, and I want to know the characters' real personalities. Would it be possible to stick to the script one of these years please?

[Nestama]

I feel you OP, this has been annoying me as well. Limited as my Japanese is, even I noticed all the unnecessary liberties the translators were taking. And the changes are beyond "things that sound similar" or "things that need to be adapted to a different culture". Sometimes characters say the opposite, or something simply unrelated, or the differences are enough to change their personalities.

Almost every sentence was butchered, but here are some examples that I remember:
-Minfilia asks you, all worried and a bit shy, if you're feeling alright and need a rest, translated as her being calmly interested in knowing what's crossing your mind, which also made her sound like any other Scion. Was it too hard or culturaly unacceptable to make her sound concerned when she is?

-Lyna openly cursing how unfair and awful things are, translated as her saying "I'm fine", because apparently, English Lyna tries to be less open about her emotions instead of just throwing them at whoever is there to listen.

-The Exarch waking from a dream, confused and disorientated, and saying something strange like "Eh...? You...? Why?", translated as "the future is where my destiny awaits : DDDD"

-But my favourite was, without a doubt, Urianger or Estinien (can't remember which) saying a long sentence that was translated as "mhph...". Sorry, man, one cares about what you've got to say.

There's no excuse for any of the mistranslations. It simply feels like the translators wanted to write their own story. I personally want to know what the original story is telling, and I want to know the characters' real personalities. Would it be possible to stick to the script one of these years please?

That's localisation and once more, what makes it into the product is given the okay by everyone. So what you may have issues with was even given the okay by the person who wrote the story and script.

Anyway, I'm going to nitpick your examples. Lyna is complaining about how awful and unfair things are, but in her own way. She's spiraling into depression by stating how she's alive to mourn those who were lost, whom she failed to protect. If you have not heard this scene in English, I highly recommend you do. Spoilers, naturally.

The Exarch is quoting a certain someone from his dream. Once again, spoilers.

I have no idea about Estinien, as I do not remember when it played. If all he said was "hmmph" then it's probably nothing important.

I also don't recall when Minfillia calmly asks us X question, but depending on when it plays, chances are it could be due to character development reasons.

It's not mistranslations.

[xxSouxx]

That's localisation and once more, what makes it into the product is given the okay by everyone. So what you may have issues with was even given the okay by the person who wrote the story and script.

I don't know about that.
Can we assume that the original authors are familiar enough with English to notice minor localization mistakes?
If most of the scripts seem correct, they are bound to miss discrepancies here and there since even professional translators mis-translate on occasions.

[Clover_Blake]

Anyway, I'm going to nitpick your examples. Lyna is complaining about how awful and unfair things are, but in her own way. She's spiraling into depression by stating how she's alive to mourn those who were lost, whom she failed to protect. If you have not heard this scene in English, I highly recommend you do. Spoilers, naturally.

From the bits I've seen in your video (I hadn't watched the dub before), the character is somehow different. English Lyna seems to play tough, she replies directly to you and she sounds really pissed. Japanese one sounds more devastated than angry (albeit she's angry as well), she doesn't even reply to you when you try to help her. She just curses and half cries to herself, and looks the most fragile she's been.

Putting aside how the English voice actress sounds nothing like the Japanese one, was it really necessary to also change the script for the mere sake of changing it? The original scene was not bad for it to need a change.

The Exarch is quoting a certain someone from his dream. Once again, spoilers.

Oh, I see, I didn't remember that. But the thing is that the original one is not quoting anyone, as far as I know. He just sounded like he was having some sort of nightmare, he sounded disoriented. Why was it necessary to change that, other than because the translator thought it'd be cool to write their own scene?

I have no idea about Estinien, as I do not remember when it played. If all he said was "hmmph" then it's probably nothing important.

I can only guess that it wasn't important for the translators, but would it hurt them to translate the script? OxO;

I also don't recall when Minfillia calmly asks us X question, but depending on when it plays, chances are it could be due to character development reasons.

I quoted that part for my friend back when I watched it, so I can paste it:

JAPANESE MINFILIA:
"U-um, are you alright? If you feel tired, maybe you should rest..." (sounds concerned and hesitant, clumsy as to not knowing what to do to help or where the problem lies).

TRANSLATION:
"You have something on your mind. What is it?" (looks quite direct, calm, and business level. A sentence that Y'shtola or any other Scion could have said).

(Among many, many other sentences that were changed).

Translators aren't supposed to decide on character development. It's not their place, they are not the story writters. So I personally wish they could try to deliver the original story, and not their particular vision of it.

EDIT / PS: For the record, I'm not asking for super literal translations, adapting is alright. What I'd like is just for the text meaning and the character's personality to not change.

[Nestama]

From the bits I've seen in your video (I hadn't watched the dub before), the character is somehow different. English Lyna seems to play tough, she replies directly to you and she sounds really pissed. Japanese one sounds more devastated than angry (albeit she's angry as well), she doesn't even reply to you when you try to help her. She just curses and half cries to herself, and looks the most fragile she's been.

Putting aside how the English voice actress sounds nothing like the Japanese one, was it really necessary to also change the script for the mere sake of changing it? The original scene was not bad for it to need a change.

And that's why I like the English Lyna more. She's a leader, she can't break down (possibly) in front of her subordinates, who likely look up to her in the worst of times (build morale, if you will). She has to be strong for them... but of course that's hard for her to do as she laments the loss of those she tried to save.

Lyna is also voiced by an Icelandic actress. The English localisation team did what FFXII did by giving the Viera their own accents.

Oh, I see, I didn't remember that. But the thing is that the original one is not quoting anyone, as far as I know. He just sounded like he was having some sort of nightmare, he sounded disoriented. Why was it necessary to change that, other than because the translator thought it'd be cool to write their own scene?

Does it matter? It has no plot importance and it's a neat call back.

I can only guess that it wasn't important for the translators, but would it hurt them to translate the script? OxO;

The script they write is original, as is the Japanese, French and German script. If I'm right about this, they're (including the JP localisation team) not directly translating the storyboard/authors work. Basically, you shouldn't say that the Japanese script is the original script. All scripts are the original. They're just slightly different so they work for the locale they're written for... assuming I'm right about this.

I quoted that part for my friend back when I watched it, so I can paste it:

JAPANESE MINFILIA:
"U-um, are you alright? If you feel tired, maybe you should rest..." (sounds concerned and hesitant, clumsy as to not knowing what to do to help or where the problem lies).

TRANSLATION:
"You have something on your mind. What is it?" (looks quite direct, calm, and business level. A sentence that Y'shtola or any other Scion could have said).

(Among many, many other sentences that were changed).

Translators aren't supposed to decide on character development. It's not their place, they are not the story writters. So I personally wish they could try to deliver the original story, and not their particular vision of it.

When exactly does that play, though? I would like to know the context of the scene.

[Clover_Blake]

And that's why I like the English Lyna more.

And I like the Japanese Lyna more, but I believe we aren't discussing our personal tastes but the accuracy of the translations.

Does it matter? It has no plot importance and it's a neat call back.

It matters to me that translators change the script whenever they want, and it's the point of this whole thread.

The script they write is original, as is the Japanese, French and German script. If I'm right about this, they're (including the JP localisation team) not directly translating the storyboard/authors work. Basically, you shouldn't say that the Japanese script is the original script. All scripts are the original. They're just slightly different so they work for the locale they're written for... assuming I'm right about this.

...?
I'm not sure I'm following. This is a Japanese game, the original scripters are Japanese, and every other language needs to be translated from one original script. They even explained the process of translating from Japanese to English during one of the Fanfests. A translation is not an original script, it's a translation ;
But I'm a bit confused here and perhaps there's some info that I lack.

When exactly does that play, though? I would like to know the context of the scene.

I don't remember the exact scene, but if the Japanese script shows Minfilia with a certain type of personality at that point of the story, it means that's the personality she's supposed to have. Otherwise we go into Haurchefant territory, where the translators decided to make a different character out of him.

This might be cool with some people, but some of us would rather the translation to be as accurate as possible (not necessarily literal, as I said; just accurate).

[Tsukino]

The script they write is original, as is the Japanese, French and German script. If I'm right about this, they're (including the JP localisation team) not directly translating the storyboard/authors work. Basically, you shouldn't say that the Japanese script is the original script. All scripts are the original. They're just slightly different so they work for the locale they're written for... assuming I'm right about this.

You are not right about this. A while back there was something posted by Koji Fox about how the English team and himself specifically work much closer with the Japanese team and are able to offer suggestions and work on things that will be used across all versions of the game - the specific examples at the time were titles and the language used by dragons. While this is much more direct involvement than localization teams usually get (which is often zero), for some reason a lot of people misinterpreted this to mean that they somehow co-write the story and the English version is somehow "just as original" which is patently false. The writers are Japanese and the other localization teams translate and then edit the story dialogue from the original scripts.

Again, they may have a greater ability to go back and say "hey this line doesn't seem to be consistent with this previous scene" and make all the versions better and more consistent for it. But they don't all sit in a room together and write in 2-4 languages at the same time, that would be ridiculous.

[Knahli]

JAPANESE MINFILIA:
"U-um, are you alright? If you feel tired, maybe you should rest..." (sounds concerned and hesitant, clumsy as to not knowing what to do to help or where the problem lies).

TRANSLATION:
"You have something on your mind. What is it?" (looks quite direct, calm, and business level. A sentence that Y'shtola or any other Scion could have said).

When exactly does that play, though? I would like to know the context of the scene.

I don't remember the exact scene, but if the Japanese script shows Minfilia with a certain type of personality at that point of the story, it means that's the personality she's supposed to have..

Then I can't really argue on this.

If memory serves, I believe the scene you two are talking about is:

...when everyone is discussing Y'shtola's leap into the pit. Ryne looks towards the WoL and notices they are quiet and possibly thinking about something. She asks after them and the WoL gets the prompt that lets them mention that they suspect Y'shtola may have used Flow again.

[Iscah]

-Lyna openly cursing how unfair and awful things are, translated as her saying "I'm fine", because apparently, English Lyna tries to be less open about her emotions instead of just throwing them at whoever is there to listen.

The thing is - she's not fine, she knows it, and you know it. She's not pretending to be fine. She *is* openly cursing how unfair and awful it is that she is still here and alive when so many aren't - that she is fine compared to them as she lies on the ground collapsed in pain.

It was clear and powerful to me.

-But my favourite was, without a doubt, Urianger or Estinien (can't remember which) saying a long sentence that was translated as "mhph...".

As if anything Urianger says could be condensed to a one-word response... :P

[Lersayil]

The thing is - she's not fine, she knows it, and you know it. She's not pretending to be fine. She *is* openly cursing how unfair and awful it is that she is still here and alive when so many aren't - that she is fine compared to them as she lies on the ground collapsed in pain.

It was clear and powerful to me.


As if anything Urianger says could be condensed to a one-word response... :P

True, they are mostly inconsequential nitpicks, but they are annoying and hard to explain when the change is clearly (?) not a localization decision, and only changes the tone / painted personality of a character.

Those two examples are good ones. Sure some might think its better this way, but why even change them?