Thoughts on PLD changes

[MerlinCross]

Actually some changes I think would be cool would be to remove shield bash (since it's basically useless now save for some extremely rare or unlikely situations which technically go against SE design for job balance this expac anyway) and replace it with shield swipe with a 50 oath gauge cost and remove cover from the oath gauge.

For Dungeon Mobs I tend to open with Arms Length and then near the end of it's slow start shield bashing them in turn.

I will say it feels redundant to have 2 stuns as a PLD though.

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

For Dungeon Mobs I tend to open with Arms Length and then near the end of it's slow start shield bashing them in turn.

I will say it feels redundant to have 2 stuns as a PLD though.

please don't shield bash them just use the awesome AoE we have now, it will help your healer more and if you got a WHM in party, 9 time out of 10 they are already immune to stun if your WHM is anyway decent and are using holy to help dps down trash packs.

[Nedkel]

Still dont understand How a sword and shield job do more damage than the 2 handed weapon jobs.

Historically, sword and shield are deadlier than just a sword.

[Hezzlocks]

Historically, sword and shield are deadlier than just a sword.

Yeah, this is pretty true. Shields aren't just for defense. They can be used to catch your opponent's weapon and throw them off balance, making for a much easier target, and of course being slammed at full force by a solid piece of steel or even wood will disorientate you and leave you wide open.

Of course, yeah, a well-placed blow with a very large very sharp sword will do more damage in a single hit, with the possibility of even cleaving through the shield if it finds a weak spot. And in-game logic of course typically has sword/shield combos do less damage, so yeah

[VargasVermillion]

Of course, yeah, a well-placed blow with a very large very sharp sword will do more damage in a single hit, with the possibility of even cleaving through the shield if it finds a weak spot. And in-game logic of course typically has sword/shield combos do less damage, so yeah

Cleaving a shield would be practically impossible, a poorly made or damaged one maybe. The only time you'd hit a shield would be either your blow was blocked or you willingly attacked it, both bad options.

[dragoelete]

Cleaving a shield would be practically impossible, a poorly made or damaged one maybe. The only time you'd hit a shield would be either your blow was blocked or you willingly attacked it, both bad options.

i will say if im using a purely woden shield or a shield that only has metal around the edges your not gonna see me blocking a giant sword or axe im gonna def try my best to dodge and only block as a last resort since a giant sword would fracture the bones in your arm from the impact and in the case of a giant axe ... wel axes were made to cut wood so i wouldnt feel to comfy blocking an axe with a wooden shield.

[TouchandFeel]

Cleaving a shield would be practically impossible, a poorly made or damaged one maybe. The only time you'd hit a shield would be either your blow was blocked or you willingly attacked it, both bad options.

You definitely can break or cleave through a shield with the right weapon.

Most shields used in actual combat throughout history weren't made from large sheets of metal, but from wood that was often reinforced with leather binding and strategically placed small pieces of metal for greater strength. Shields made almost entirely of metal didn't really appear until much later and were much smaller in size and tended to be for tourney, ceremonial use or fencing like the buckler. The sheer weight and unwieldiness of a large metal shield pretty much excludes their practical use on the battlefield.

A weapon with enough weight and inertia behind it like a large axe, maul or a large heavy sword like the Dacian Falx would potentially be able to get through a shield or at least mess it up enough to render it fairly useless.
Historical records even mention how the Roman legions were thrown for a loop a bit because of certain weapons like the Francisca and the Dacian Falx being able to break through their shields and injure or kill the soldier, rendering their shield formations less effective.

Also, directly attacking the shield in an attempt to break it was a tactic that was actually used on the battlefield. In the instance of large shieldwall formations, the intent of directly attacking the shields is obvious, to break the through the formation. In foot combat, shields would sometimes be targeted in an attempt to hinder the enemy. Many shields were not actually just held but strapped to the body in some way, such as a forearm strap or shoulder strap. If you break your enemy's shield and render it virtually useless, that leaves them encumbered with a busted shield getting in the way of their movement, giving you an advantage that could be the difference between life or death.

[VargasVermillion]

You definitely can break or cleave through a shield with the right weapon.

Most shields used in actual combat throughout history weren't made from large sheets of metal, but from wood that was often reinforced with leather binding and strategically placed small pieces of metal for greater strength. Shields made almost entirely of metal didn't really appear until much later and were much smaller in size and tended to be for tourney, ceremonial use or fencing like the buckler. The sheer weight and unwieldiness of a large metal shield pretty much excludes their practical use on the battlefield.

A weapon with enough weight and inertia behind it like a large axe, maul or a large heavy sword like the Dacian Falx would potentially be able to get through a shield or at least mess it up enough to render it fairly useless.
Historical records even mention how the Roman legions were thrown for a loop a bit because of certain weapons like the Francisca and the Dacian Falx being able to break through their shields and injure or kill the soldier, rendering their shield formations less effective.

Also, directly attacking the shield in an attempt to break it was a tactic that was actually used on the battlefield. In the instance of large shieldwall formations, the intent of directly attacking the shields is obvious, to break the through the formation. In foot combat, shields would sometimes be targeted in an attempt to hinder the enemy. Many shields were not actually just held but strapped to the body in some way, such as a forearm strap or shoulder strap. If you break your enemy's shield and render it virtually useless, that leaves them encumbered with a busted shield getting in the way of their movement, giving you an advantage that could be the difference between life or death.

You make some good points but I doubt it happened often enough for it to be done on the regular, shields are a mainstay up until plate armor was at it's best so naturally shields were still very effective, simply breaking a shield is not an easy task, Although it's interesting you mentioned the romans but left out pilums which adding to your point were primarily designed to hinder shields so go figure :P

[ArianeEwah]

I started my trial back in 3.3, and took GLA/PLD as my starting class. It was great as a story job, as it gave off this WoL feeling...

3.0 snip

PLD did great in appearance, but once I hit 60, and got some advice from FC mates, I came to realize...
PLD was the worst of all tanks, and I noticed this once I started MRD/WAR. PLD had no damage! Like, every task/duty/job they did was sluggish. I did ARR relic with PLD, and seriously - dungeons were a sore. No AoE (except SoC), just single target, and even ST combo was painfully weak.
Divine Veil was a great idea, but imo I rarely saw any great use of it. Shelltron was great for mana regen if you needed it, and had up to 30% mitigation. (yeah, btw "Oath gauge" wasn't a thing in 3.x, it had a flat 15s CD.)
STR down also nice, but had rarely any use either. Most "dangerous" damage was raid-wide, and those were magic type. PLD was lacking magic mitigation. Rampart and Sentinel, that was it, both on 90s and 180s respectively.
DRK and WAR were far superior to PLD.
WAR had almost the same mitigation, Holmgang could be used as much as Sentinel, Bloodbath heal on burst was insane, Storm's Path mitigated ALL damage types. Their damage was over the top, strongest AoE, great snap aggro. They did roughly 30% more damage on ST than PLD.
DRK was also more fun to play, and had great magic mitigation, and dealt ~15-20% more damage than PLD.
PLD also suffered TP problems on high uptime fights, while DRK could manage with Blood Weapon and WAR had Equilibrium.

3.x PLD was never in "good spot", it made me switch to WAR real quick... despite it being my first job in FF14.

4.0 WOW! PLD is greatest tank, but busiest tank in the game. snip

Define "busy"!? PLD was (and is now) the easiest tank to play rotation-wise.
If this is about button bloat, I agree. PLD was loaded! Bulwark, Shelltron, Intervention, Arms (Wings), and... Shield Bash? Still there...
PLD received great changes in 4.x, with AoE addititon, a magic "burst rotation", Cover, potency and combo buffs, OT mitigation, blocks affecting magic (HUGE buff).
PLD was finally able to find a save spot in every party, and was probably the the strongest tank in this expansion.
Dungeons were still in favor of WAR, just as pulling raid bosses. But given the tools PLD had, that was no problem.

5.0 Finally. snip

I think SE did great with tanks in general with the latest expansion. Right now, I haven't leveled PLD beyond 70. Yet the additions of AoE possibilities, as well as getting rid of the old button bloat are beautiful.

[TheForce]

@Kolysycol,

PLD main here, and one who also loves using Clemency in dungeons. As for the reason why I do this, I personally just really dislike falling below 80ish % hp. No matter what game I play, I always just like having lots of HP. Also, I don't like completely relying on somebody else to take care of me in this regard. Clemency is an incredible powerful tool, so I will use it.

I'll be honest Kolsykol, if a healer told me what you tell other PLDs in dungeons, I'd be annoyed too. Definitely not excusing PLDs cussing you out or things of that nature, but I do think their irritation is justified. You claim that you're not trying to tell people how to play...so why even try to confront someone about this? It's not about not trusting you, personally, I just like to take care of myself as much as possible. Especially when I have the tools to do it. A PLD who wants to heal themselves isn't bringing any real harm to the group, in fact, they may be saving you some MP. If someone is doing something that isn't truly hurting you, don't try to make them feel wrong for doing it.

I won't speak for others, but for me, if someone does this it makes me feel like they think they're some all-knowing higher up (which they never are) who has the right to pass judgment on everybody. I don't like that, at all. A, because like I said it's not true, and B, because it's kind of rude and jusy flat out annoying, no matter how "polite" you try and make it sound. Rule of thumb: unless someone is obviously ruining the group and stopping you from progressing, just try not to say anything.