BLM QoL suggestion

[Numenor1379]

Off Topic:
Based on what math?

Please correct me if I have gotten something wrong, however; from the math I've run:
Thundercloud (TC) = 70 + (40 * 8) = 390 Potency / 2.5s = 156 PPS
Fire I (F1) = 180 * 1.8 (in AF3) = 324 Potency / 2.5s = 129.6 PPS
Fire IV (F4) = 300 * 1.8 (in AF3) = 540 Potency / 2.8s = 192.8 PPS
Despair = 380 * 1.8 (in AF) = 684 Potency / 3.0s = 228 PPS

You have MP (with UHx3) for 7 Fire spells in AF; so ideally 7xF4 (average 192.8 PPS) ...
However, timing dictates that one of those needs to be a F1 (to refresh AF); thus we have the standard 3xF4 + F1 + 3xF4 (average 183.7 PPS) ...
There is extra room in AF now though, which allows for a TC proc (ideally somewhere in the middle for 100% Thunder up time) plus a Despair at the end, so 3xF4 + F1 + TC + 3xF4 + Despair (average 185.6 PPS) ...
Now you could fit in some more TC procs (either side of Despair), however; with Thundercloud being lower PPS than the average for the AF phase is this really worth it?

One thing is for sure though, sacrificing F4's to fit in extra TC procs is a definite DPS loss.

On Topic:
Thus my suggestion that Thundercloud procs be able to be stored, either for longer or in a stack, until the point that they are actually beneficial.

Thundercloud procs are actually two things in one.
-- The entire potency of the full DoT on initial hit.
-- Applies the regular DoT.

So it is really:
[70 + 390 + (40 * 8)]/ 2.5s = 312 PPS

[Acidblood]

Thundercloud procs are actually two things in one.
-- The entire potency of the full DoT on initial hit.
-- Applies the regular DoT.

So it is really:
[70 + 390 + (40 * 8)]/ 2.5s = 312 PPS

That is only true if you aren't overriding an existing Thunder DoT; i.e. if Thunder is already up then you cannot include the full DoT potency (if any at all) in the base potency.

The question is around the use of additional Thundercloud procs; i.e. beyond those necessary to maintain 100% Thunder uptime (or near enough to). As such, it is of no benefit to consider the DoT portion of Thunder / Thundercloud (as it either applies universally, or does not apply at all).

Edit: For context the full 'standard' rotation, which gives 100% Thunder uptime, (and taken in the middle of a fight) would be:
B3 > Xenoglossy > Sharpcast (weave) > T3 (or TC) > B4 > F3 > F4 > F4 > F4 > F1 > TC > F4 > F4 > F4 > Despair > B3 ...

[Acidblood]

Even then you still have the 460pot initial hit, making it 184 PPS (basically an instant F4). IIRC, so long as you do not use the T4P to refresh the DoT when it has more than 12s(?) remaining it is a DPS gain to use.

How do you get 460?

24s / 3 = 8 ticks * 40 = 320 + 70 = 390pot initial hit.

The original assertion is that:

As for Thundercloud procs, it's always a DPS gain to just use it as soon as it pops up, even if you're in AF. Well, presuming using it won't cause you to drop Enochian.

This is not true (as far as I can tell). Contextually Thundercloud is worth using, as you said, to refresh Thunder past a certain point, but if you already have 100% Thunder uptime (as per the rotation) then using additional TC procs is not worth it (unless I’m missing something) and thus they are wasted.

[Numenor1379]

How do you get 460?

24s / 3 = 8 ticks * 40 = 320 + 70 = 390pot initial hit.

The original assertion is that:


This is not true (as far as I can tell). Contextually Thundercloud is worth using, as you said, to refresh Thunder past a certain point, but if you already have 100% Thunder uptime (as per the rotation) then using additional TC procs is not worth it (unless I’m missing something) and thus they are wasted.

The 460 is the 390 of the full DoT potency added to the initial attack as that's how the Thundercould Proc works. You're thinking it's just a simple reapplication of the normal DoT, it is not.

[Rongway]

The 460 is the 390 of the full DoT potency added to the initial attack as that's how the Thundercould Proc works. You're thinking it's just a simple reapplication of the normal DoT, it is not.

You're double counting the initial potency. Only the DoT portion is actually added to the hit.

[Taranok]

Agreed with AoE, Fire II feels really clunky, just a somewhat pointless filler to use your first two umbral hearts on before you can Flare.

As for Thundercloud procs, it's always a DPS gain to just use it as soon as it pops up, even if you're in AF. Well, presuming using it won't cause you to drop Enochian.

As far as I am aware, Fire II isn't even part of the aoe rotation post 68 regardless of how many umbral hearts you actually have, because its damage just flat out doesn't justify it. And then seriously find some way for Fire 2 to be relevant to AoE. I'd go so far as giving it the Freeze treatment of letting it be an AF/UI swap spell and nudging its potency up so that 3 targets actually makes it do more damage than fire 4 does, and maybe then I'd consider using it.

And a QoL change I'd really like to see is changing sharpcast to be a trait instead of a button. By the time you have sharpcast as a 30s cooldown, I personally always use it for fire 3 procs (less likely to happen, adds substantially more versatility to your DPS rotation), and having to push the oGCD just gets annoying on a class that really doesn't like pushing oGCDs for something with fundamentally 100% up time. I'd rather just see the first sharpcast at 54 give fire 1 a guaranteed chance to proc fire 3 either with or without an internal cooldown, and then make the level 74 version of sharpcast buff the proc rate of Thunder spells by an amount. 3-5% for thunder 3, 1-2% for thunder 4. Also take aspect mastery and throw it down to level 30 or 40, because that's a massive QoL improvement on BLM and it should not be relegated to a high-end skill.

[Hasrat]

I think a thing to keep in mind with button-combining suggestions is that, while they may work right now, future additions/updates may require those things remain separate.

[Rongway]

I think a thing to keep in mind with button-combining suggestions is that, while they may work right now, future additions/updates may require those things remain separate.

Between the Lines, though...It's 100% non-usable except when Ley Lines is up. Ley Lines is 100% non-usable while Ley-Lines is up. The two should definitely be the same button.

[Hasrat]

Between the Lines, though...It's 100% non-usable except when Ley Lines is up. Ley Lines is 100% non-usable while Ley-Lines is up. The two should definitely be the same button.

I don't disagree, but, all it would take is basically adding any other ability that can only be used during Ley Lines to sorta break that. I agree, combining the two would still probably be the most logical solution regardless of future additions, the utility of placing an anchor point you can move to. And it wouldn't surprise me if devs really haven't thought far enough ahead on skills to plan around adding more things that get used only during Lines.

Like I said, a lot of the ideas sound like they would work great with what we have now. But that doesn't mean it won't change. Idk. Just a consideration.

[Seraphor]

I don't disagree, but, all it would take is basically adding any other ability that can only be used during Ley Lines to sorta break that. I agree, combining the two would still probably be the most logical solution regardless of future additions, the utility of placing an anchor point you can move to. And it wouldn't surprise me if devs really haven't thought far enough ahead on skills to plan around adding more things that get used only during Lines.

Like I said, a lot of the ideas sound like they would work great with what we have now. But that doesn't mean it won't change. Idk. Just a consideration.

Even if they added another skill that, like BtL, could only be used during Ley Lines, then chances are the simple movement utility of BtL would make it the favourable bind to LL over whatever this new skill ends up being.