Thread: What is Missing in 2.0 - Ways to Level classes

I'm a new player that's started a week or two ago and so far I'm level 32. Leveling hasn't been all that painful. Mainly I've just been doing leves, sidequests, the storyline, and whatever class quests etc are available. Here are my thoughts on what leveling up in FFXIV is currently like:

Leves - I hate to say this, but I have been thinking about WoW and something they do really well is breadcrumb the player. You go from one hub to the next doing quests that teach the player about the people and the lore of the world. I get that most of the quests are essentially the same, go kill 10 xyz things. In XIV you just repeat leves, behest, and dungeons over and over. At lease Blizzard covers up their grind with new locations enemies and lore as the player progresses through to highest level. WoW has thousands of quests and XIV has maybe 100. I am not saying that questing is going to fix XIV's leveling. I guess I just want more variety in how we level.

I agree with this. Leves don't need to be thrown away or anything, but some quests at each settlement would help advance the player as well as develop the world and lore, giving various zones some more unique personality. It doesn't have to be to the extent of WoW or games like it, but having both leves and a small quest hub element would give the game a lot more variety to playing and depth to the world. Quality>Quantity, as long as there are a few of a them I think it'd go a long way. This would also help a ton with making people feel more connected to the world.

Sidequests - A joke if you consider them a way to level your classes, you can only do them once and it seems like are more about getting some gear for free and to teach you some lore. All in all they seem like a waste of time.

I think these were pretty decent, though they could be better made and more interesting. I agree that it's more about getting some free gear, but the exp is a nice perk. I wouldn't count it out as it does diversify the leveling experience and provide a good lore and immersion element. One main point is that you cannot do these again, so trying to level a second class will be extremely boring. I think this is a problem that could be rectified somehow, atm the main solution is powerleveling.

Behest - Super grindy and seem pointless, I haven't done in months and months

Agreed, these are pretty pointless. There's a good idea here, but at the moment they aren't robust enough to bother with. There at least needs to be more incentive to do these. I also think content where you have to wait around for it to start is problematic because people don't want to wait or bother to check if they have to wait.

I think a problem is that you have to sign up beforehand. It should just start on it's own and you can join in whenever you want. None of this invisible monster crap where if you didn't sign up you can't see anything.

Dungeons - More low level dungeons would be nice. All we have is 1 R15 and 1 R25.

Agreed. To be honest the dungeons feel a little dinky, so they either should be beefed up a bit or add a few more. Personally I think you need to impress players early on, so having a pretty nice dungeon for low levels wouldn't hurt, I don't think Sposhae can really cut it for a lot of people. There could also be more quests added as a reason to visit each dungeon, perhaps as side missions. Like for Sposhae, maybe a quest to kill the crab boss, etc.

Caravan Escort - I have only done this to grind company seals at R50, so no leveling here. I know I could do the lower level one maybe to get seals and level.

Haven't done these yet. Personally I think the problem with these types of content are that you have to wait around for them to start. People don't want to wait around when they can just keep grinding and be more efficient. Otherwise the idea of content that anyone can join in on is nice.

I'll also just add that Grand Company leves are painfully bad. They need to either be improved, have the reward upped a bit, or just removed because they make the game feel bad. Preferably improve them, as it's a good reason to visit world dungeons, and they could also make them feel a little more dungeon like rather than just subzones.

One more note, the storyline is great and makes leveling a lot more enjoyable, but at the same time too much and it can start to feel like you're out of touch with other players.

TL;DR
-Add a small but robust quest hub element to add variety to leveling, flavor to the world, and story to each settlement. Quality>Quantity. This is not to dominate or totally drive the leveling experience, but to diversify it.
-More dungeons, with more quests for them, with improved quality to impress players early on.
-People are just going to skip over behests because of the timed increments and not being impressive enough. Guild Wars 2 is doing something like this but will have bosses whose difficulty will scale to however many people are participating. I think that's the direction FFXIV should go with this.

One more thing - just saying "in FFXIV you use parties to play" is a cop-out. You can do that in any game, and just killing new monsters in a new environment isn't going to convince people to pay a monthly fee. Overall though, the leveling experience for me has actually been pretty good and diverse. It just needs that extra oomph and some fixes, adjustments, and fine tuning.

I agree with the OP, this is something that concerns me, as well.

When leves were reformed so that they would no longer be central leveling content, Yoshi-P announced this change in design philosophy:

"We still have some ways to go, but FINAL FANTASY XIV will gradually shift from being a grind-centric game to one that offers enjoyment for all playing styles and circumstances with its ever-expanding variety of content."

It sounded like FFXIV was going to move toward a leveling model that would bring it in line with modern MMOs. Players would be able to take on "large volumes of quests" that required actual interaction with NPCs. These quests were indeed described as a viable leveling tool when it was said that, "In addition to guildleves, sidequests will also be made to yield skill points upon completion, thus providing players with more avenues for advancement."

This obviously has not fully come to fruition, as quest rewards are minimal and the number of quests are insufficient to really progress your character. While the new leveling model implied perhaps some WoW-style or Aion-style questing (which I would personally love to see), that doesn't seem to be something that's coming anytime soon. Perhaps this is in the works for 2.0. I wouldn't be surprised if they held off until then, considering the large-scale changes to maps and zone progression that will be coming. A lot of the quest writing and hub setup would all change, with a lot work wasted.

The fact of the matter is, when leves were repositioned, there was no real alternative put in their place. Open-world monsters were tweaked to facilitate grind parties. While the repeatable monotony of leves didn't lend toward making them the best idea of central progression, at least they gave us a reason to go out into the world and complete a mission, rewarding gil, items, and faction reputation. But now, it's mindlessly killing the same monsters over and over a la FFXI. Often through powerleveling.

I am seriously hoping this was only done as a temporary solution for a game that lacked content, and will change in 2.0. Reason being, this is actually a large step backwards from the goal that Yoshi-P announced last June. What modern MMOs like WoW accomplish from their method of progression is disguising the grind behind story-driven content, dungeons and battlegrounds. You have fun and play the game and don't worry about the levels. Whereas FFXIV separates the grind from the story, so all you do is worry about gaining levels, making the game too much naked grind.

The OP really hit the nail on the head with many points about lack of leveling content, especially this:

Originally Posted by Kerath

Leves - I hate to say this, but I have been thinking about WoW and something they do really well is breadcrumb the player. You go from one hub to the next doing quests that teach the player about the people and the lore of the world. I get that most of the quests are essentially the same, go kill 10 xyz things. In XIV you just repeat leves, behest, and dungeons over and over. At lease Blizzard covers up their grind with new locations enemies and lore as the player progresses through to highest level. WoW has thousands of quests and XIV has maybe 100. I am not saying that questing is going to fix XIV's leveling. I guess I just want more variety in how we level.

Leves and sidequests really need some more love. Especially the sidequests. While it's fine for leves to be nitty gritty kill 10 xyz, quests can be so much more than that, and have multiple steps in a chain. Breadcrumbs lead us to dungeons, to hamlets, to other questhubs, and help facilitate progression. Many players are indeed questers, and this game just does not deliver in that regard.

Originally Posted by Kerath

Behest - Super grindy and seem pointless, I haven't done in months and months

Behests are actually a great idea, just implemented poorly. They remind me of a simpler version of Warhammer's public quests, which was a great way to spontaneously group people together to do open-world content. You could easily join, and weren't out of luck if the quest had already started (it was just likely you wouldn't get the best rewards due to lower contribution). Behests might be more successful if they took on more of these concepts, especially auto-grouping the participants and offering more substantial rewards for completion and contribution.

Originally Posted by Kerath

Dungeons - More low level dungeons would be nice. All we have is 1 R15 and 1 R25.

Absolutely. Dungeons are not just for endgame. These are great ways to gain exp, get a couple low-level pieces of gear, and teach players how to work together in a group. Give us more Shposhae and Toto-Rak! There should 3 instanced dungeons and 3 open-world dungeons for each level tier (I say three because it would provide one corresponding to each city-state). If this is put in place, I'm hoping the leveling speed will be slowed down a bit so that low-mid level content will be worthwhile.

Originally Posted by Kerath

Hamlet Defense - I am not sure how Hamlet Defense is going to play into leveling our characters but it sounds interesting.

I'm looking forward to these, hoping they will be similar to FFXI's Besieged.

I'm concerned that what will be the central means of level progression in 2.0 has not been made clear to us. Will we be moving more toward a quest/dungeon/public content model? Or will the structure remain generally much as it is now with grind parties taking center stage and alternatives that are less than meaningful? I personally have no interest in the latter as I left that kind of naked grind behind in FFXI years ago and don't want to get back to that. I know that if we don't get some real meat and potatoes leveling content in 2.0, the game will lose its appeal for me, and I'm afraid it will for others, as well.

I dislike quest level up system or dungeon level system that is not needed is fine how we level up now

Originally Posted by viion

have both?

Exactly. Having options makes for happy gamers.

Originally Posted by casker

One more thing - just saying "in FFXIV you use parties to play" is a cop-out. You can do that in any game, and just killing new monsters in a new environment isn't going to convince people to pay a monthly fee.

I have to agree. And to say that this is the intended design model isn't correct, anyway. FFXIV was never conceived as a game where open world party grinding would be the primary means of level progression. Leveling was originally meant to be achieved through guildleves, which is a questing system (not the best questing system, but one nonetheless). When leves were repositioned as solo content, it was done with the announcement that the game would move away from a grind-centric model, and move toward offering players a variety of options.

Keeping this in mind, I can't see how making grind-parties possible was done as anything more than a placeholder for future leveling content. It was just the fastest way to give players an alternative to doing leves, which they were sick to death of. I would like to believe Yoshi-P has an idea of what modern MMO gamers want, and naked grinding is not something most find appealing. It's apparent that there are some old-school gamers that do enjoy it, so there is no harm in keeping it in place as an option. But to say that it's fine the way it is would not only be incorrect, but completely ignores the announcement made by Yoshi-P.

Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida

In other words, the 2.0 client has reached that realistic level. Now we are entering the phase where we are switching the maps, adding dungeons, transplanting updated content and adding new, implementing a ton of quests, and seeing how much stuff we can put in with our mass production line.

Seeing this posted yesterday gave me hope that these are perhaps some of those leveling options - questing, dungeons, and new content.