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  1. #1
    Player
    Magnedeus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    237
    Character
    Arngrim Lightheart
    World
    Zalera
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 80
    Chaining combos to a single button is a sign of laziness and poor game design. It would also make the game get boring very fast.
    (0)

  2. #2
    Player
    Kabooa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    4,391
    Character
    Jace Ossura
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Goldsmith Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Magnedeus View Post
    Chaining combos to a single button is a sign of laziness and poor game design. It would also make the game get boring very fast.
    Said no one playing Aion ever.
    (3)

  3. #3
    Player
    Raldo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    2,563
    Character
    Raldo Volca
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by HyoMinPark View Post
    Y: If that happens, skill combo would be too simple and easy.

    Source: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...mIIE64ca0/edit

    Seriously? Even Yoshida uses that same mind-bogglingly asinine argument? 1-1-1 is no easier/harder nor more/less engaging than 1-2-3 (the rest of the buttons aren't going anywhere). I cannot wrap my mind around it.

    Ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh kill me
    (1)
    Last edited by Raldo; 07-16-2019 at 04:00 AM.

  4. #4
    Player Seraphor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    4,620
    Character
    Seraphor Vhinasch
    World
    Zodiark
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Raldo View Post
    Seriously? Even Yoshida uses that same mind-bogglingly asinine argument? 1-1-1 is no easier/harder nor more/less engaging than 1-2-3 (the rest of the buttons aren't going anywhere). I cannot wrap my mind around it.

    Ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh kill me
    Because 1, 2 and 3 aren't the same skill.
    They have different effects and utility. Armour Crush extends Huton, Shadowfang inflicts a DoT, etc.
    Spamming one button would make keeping track of which skill you're using incredibly difficult without watching your hotbars all the time.

    This isn't a problem in PvP, because skills in PvP are dumbed down so that this isn't an issue.

    Even if you just make it an 'option' you'll be paving the way for thousands of players who are content to just spam one button, without caring which skill in the combo they're on. These might constitute 'bad player's but they'll become the new casual baseline that everything will be balanced around, and PvE will end up are dumbed down as PvP to compensate.

    People are already complaining about jobs being dumbed down, why would you want to take it further?

    If 1-1-1 is not easier to play than 1-2-3, why is it necessary?

    Button bloat isn't an issue, I play on controller and I have more than enough room for all of my skills, and I would hate this because then I'd no longer be able to play via muscle-memory, I'd have to be watching my hotbars instead of the actual fight.
    (4)
    Last edited by Seraphor; 07-16-2019 at 09:12 PM.

  5. #5
    Player
    Raldo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    2,563
    Character
    Raldo Volca
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Seraphor View Post
    Because 1, 2 and 3 aren't the same skill.
    They have different effects and utility. Armour Crush extends Huton, Shadowfang inflicts a DoT, etc.
    Spamming one button would make keeping track of which skill you're using incredibly difficult without watching your hotbars all the time.
    I'm sorry to hear that that's incredibly difficult for you. I disagree. If you're not already somewhat watching your hotbars, you'd likely forget "oh no, do I press 2 or 3 next!" instead of "oh no, did I press this button 2 or 3 times?". Your peripheral vision is probably sufficient to tell you if a button is glowing, indicating that the combo isn't complete. Not to mention that the animation and sound effects often make it quite obvious what skill you just used. Or, you know, just remember for 2 seconds. Again, we're hoping for an optional setting. Clearly it isn't for you.

    I'm not sure why skills having different effects and utilities matters, but for the chain combo button change, Ninja would get 3 combo buttons. One would end with Aeolian Edge, one would end with Shadow Fang, and one would end with Armor Crush. Since all of ninja's combos start with the same action, hitting any of those buttons for the first time would advance all three of the combos, you could still switch combos on the fly. I don't see a problem here, but I've already said that I've given up trying to convince people, so I'm merely here to answer your questions, and lay out my own personal opinions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seraphor View Post
    People are already complaining about jobs being dumbed down, why would you want to take it further?

    If 1-1-1 is not easier to play than 1-2-3, why is it necessary?

    Button bloat isn't an issue, I play on controller and I have more than enough room for all of my skills, and I would hate this because then I'd no longer be able to play via muscle-memory, I'd have to be watching my hotbars instead of the actual fight.
    I disagree that changing 1-2-3 to 1-1-1 is dumbing things down, but I don't find 1-2-3 to be any more or less difficult to perform than 1-1-1.

    Hotbar space.

    I agree that hotbar space is not an issue for most jobs. My MCH has holes in its hotbars all over the place, so do I care about condensing the Clean Shot combo down to 1 button? No, not at all! However, when I setup my darn tank hotbars, while I'll admit they're not overflowing the hotbars yet, they are certainly pushing the boundaries. I'd like to think that most people that play multiple jobs in the same role like to keep similar buttons in similar places. Your 30% mitigation skill goes here. Your can't-die-for-a-few-seconds button goes there. Gap closer, damage up buff, role actions, Limit Break, Sprint, and heck even Duty Action if you really want to. Blah blah blah. Unfortunately, PLD/WAR/DRK have 1 single target combo (PLD/WAR technically have 2 combos, but the difference is a single skill), and 1 AOE combo, while GNB has 2 single target combos and 1 AOE combo. Well, shoot. Where do I even PUT that other 1-2-3 combo? Right now, it lives on my ALT bar, which is usually reserved for actions that don't need to be used very often. I will get used to it, of course (because there is no other option), or maybe I'll even shuffle ALL of my tank hotbars around and find a new spot for it. But condensing 8 buttons down to 3 sure would make setting up my GNB bar a heck of a lot easier, and even make the other tanks feel less bloated.
    (2)
    Last edited by Raldo; 07-17-2019 at 01:06 AM.

  6. #6
    Player
    Rayshe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Posts
    2
    Character
    Merit Cousland
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 77
    Anyone who has played GNB would LOVE a simple 1-2-3. However we get 1-2-3- ST Spend for single target, or 4-5- AoE Spend, for AoE then your big hit spends. But wait. Only ONE abilitiy gives us our heal plus shield. So we need to mix the ST combo with a AoE Spend in order to help the healer out.

    Now we get into the continuation combo. Given its design your combo usually looks something like *Holding Control the entire way" 1-4-2-4-3-4-5. this is also a tanking class. so we still need to find room to slot our cool downs, our interrupts, our Anti Knock back, and our DoTs.

    freeing up a couple of keys is all we are asking for.
    (0)

  7. #7
    Player
    Llethander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    25
    Character
    Llethander Drae
    World
    Goblin
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 90
    I'm sorry, is this a suggestion to remove buttons to press? Isn't that exactly one of the reasons why WoW is bleeding subscribers? Because the game is so devoid of any form of complexity and/or challenge outside of the very top percentile of progression content that it's borderline boring? I remember the last time I played at the end of Legion... as a healer I had 4 DPS buttons to push - a 1-2 combo, and oGCD, and a spammable AoE and actual healing wasn't any more complex. Talk about snore-fest. And with every expansion release, FFXIV seems to be moving in that direction...

    The last thing we should be advocating for is the complete dumbing down of the game down to the point where we can press 1 button repeatedly to do optimal damage while removing any chance to mess up and bungle our rotation. This sounds to me like the kinda of suggestion someone who would rather the game play itself would make.

    Might as well turn FFXIV into a mobile game while we're at it. Three or four buttons to push for each class, auto-pathing, etc.
    (2)
    Last edited by Llethander; 07-27-2019 at 10:54 PM.

  8. #8
    Player
    Callinon's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    ???
    Posts
    1,557
    Character
    Callinon Soulforge
    World
    Ultros
    Main Class
    Dancer Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Llethander View Post
    I'm sorry, is this a suggestion to remove buttons to press? Isn't that exactly one of the reasons why WoW is bleeding subscribers? Because the game is so devoid of any form of complexity and/or challenge outside of the very top percentile of progression content that it's borderline boring?
    Not really no. WoW has far bigger problems than that.
    (1)

  9. #9
    Player
    Kabooa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    4,391
    Character
    Jace Ossura
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Goldsmith Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Llethander View Post
    I'm sorry, is this a suggestion to remove buttons to press? Isn't that exactly one of the reasons why WoW is bleeding subscribers? Because the game is so devoid of any form of complexity and/or challenge outside of the very top percentile of progression content that it's borderline boring? I remember the last time I played at the end of Legion... as a healer I had 4 DPS buttons to push - a 1-2 combo, and oGCD, and a spammable AoE and actual healing wasn't any more complex. Talk about snore-fest. And with every expansion release, FFXIV seems to be moving in that direction...

    The last thing we should be advocating for is the complete dumbing down of the game down to the point where we can press 1 button repeatedly to do optimal damage while removing any chance to mess up and bungle our rotation. This sounds to me like the kinda of suggestion someone who would rather the game play itself would make.

    Might as well turn FFXIV into a mobile game while we're at it. Three or four buttons to push for each class, auto-pathing, etc.
    Hey, you know how Dancer doesn't add four dancing buttons, and just changes attacks into them?

    lets not do that. Else Dancer is just a mobile game class.

    (That's you. That's what you sound like.)
    (1)

  10. #10
    Player
    Llethander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    25
    Character
    Llethander Drae
    World
    Goblin
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Kabooa View Post
    Hey, you know how Dancer doesn't add four dancing buttons, and just changes attacks into them?

    lets not do that. Else Dancer is just a mobile game class.

    (That's you. That's what you sound like.)
    Hey, you know how we actually have to press more than one button to play the game?

    Let's not do that. That's too hard, I'd rather play a mobile game.

    (That's you. That's what you sound like.)


    There's a difference between deactivating 4 attack skills to be used as dance skill while ALSO not being able to access almost every other ability the class has for the duration of the Step being used (that's actually a level of complexity in that it makes you think "is this a good time to lock out all my other skills?") and what is being suggested here in removing two attacks and rolling them into an automatic attack chain. I'd rather have to press 3 buttons in sequence than 1 button over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.

    The whole reason why they changed DNC main 4 attack skills into the dance steps is because you can't use them when in a step anyway.
    (1)
    Last edited by Llethander; 08-04-2019 at 06:11 PM.

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