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  1. #16
    Player
    Archwizard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    A café at the edge of the universe
    Posts
    1,130
    Character
    Archwizard Drake
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Cynfael View Post
    -snip-
    Then you're missing the forest for the trees. I don't care about the precise tally (I wouldn't be pedantic if you'd ballparked it), I just want you to explain what experiences shaped this view.

    You stated "just look how many RDMs misuse Vercure to see why I wouldn't want that."
    My answer to that has been "Alright I've looked, none or not a significant number that I've seen, how about you?"
    You've formed no rebuttal, and just claimed I was being absurd. In fact, including the other thread, more of your responses have been along the lines of "I don't have the patience to explain why you're wrong" than actually defending your stance.

    You're posing a hypothetical as a fact that you are choosing not to defend, yet claiming sophistry on my part for asking you to defend or even explain that stance in any subjective or objective sense.
    I'm calling BS 'cuz I wouldn't want to see SMN and BLM limited because you may have seen a couple RDMs throw out a cautionary Vercure during a roulette when the healer was doing fine.
    I won't accept "agree to disagree" 'cuz these are not equal things -- your 'opinion' or 'one-off experience' should not determine a job design, especially when you imply it's worse than it really is.

    'Cuz as it stands, on the subject of RDMs using Vercure unnecessarily:
    Is it a rampant issue? We can only speak from our subjective experiences, but I've yet to see it and you've yet to give a determinate value here. We've already agreed there's no obvious epidemic of RDMs trying to heal full-time as a result though.
    Is it a uniquely problematic design that shouldn't be extended to others? No more catastrophic for group healing than a healer wasting a cooldown or for group DPS than the RDM not using their proper rotation. Mistakes happen, especially when people are new to their job; in any other case we'd say let them make them so they can learn.
    Do the negatives outweigh the positives? Well without a determinate value for how often it occurs we can't say definitively, particularly without a declaration of what 'negative' precisely is which you also choose not to give. I would argue that the ability to heal others is already part of their intended utility, and the ability to heal themselves has numerous benefits outside and a niche within group play; going back to the discussion of Physick, I would also point out that making it relevant would counter an existing, notorious example of ability bloat.
    If the argument is that a DPS having healing in general is "a problem," then we're just having a circular argument since that's exactly the subject of the debate, but we've also shown that BLM is rather the exception here on the grounds of self-healing. If the argument is that you just don't want to see DPS throwing out heals 'cuz it's not their job and that RDM's only an exception because of flavor and gaming Dualcast, I've already explained that hybridization is an inherent part of RPG design even within Holy Trinities, with specific examples in XIV that show RDM is not "the exception" but an sample of the rule, and that's also a subjective argument aside.
    So where's the problem, officer? What grounds are we using to say it's bad enough for RDMs with Vercure that SMN shouldn't have a decent Physick, let alone giving BLM their own spammable self-heal they can't use on others anyway?

    You claimed it's a problem. The onus is on you to prove it, before anyone else should have to dispute it.
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    Last edited by Archwizard; 07-08-2019 at 11:39 PM.

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