Dark Knight follow up thread

[Sancho_Nyanta]

The point is that every other tank can do something similar without using an ability that eats into your dps. It's the same as if heart of stone took ammo or if raw/nascent flash(glint) took a portion of the beast gauge (500 potency loss respectively for the sake of argument). Now imagine if the full value of that ability was not used and you're out the potency.

As it is now, the two jobs mentioned above have it as a gain no matter what. War has a self sustain out of it. Heart of stone is just free. So those jobs get the mitigation at no cost. TBN is neutral at best. It's a simple disadvantage.

All I want is good gameplay to be rewarded. If you jack up, fine, eat the 500 potency loss. But if you do it well then it's a gain and not neutral.. The idea that it's neutral or loss just sucks.

Do something similar without eating into DPS? Stares in Clemency

The thing is that you get so much more mitigation on TBN than HoS. This is why HoS is free and TBN is not. To really get the healing that would make NF heal as much as what TBN is mitigating, you have to line it up with your hardest hitting skills to get that kind of healing. This makes it more clunky to use than the on demand nature of TBN because if you don't line it up with your big hitting skills then the amount of health you are gaining is mediocre. Furthermore, if it would have killed you anyway then NF isn't going to help. This is admittedly a more uncommon scenario but if you or another party member has 1 or more vuln stacks then it can become a factor.


The gain that you are getting is the TBN shield itself for free not the E/FoS. A Defensive gain may not be enough of a gain to meet your criteria but the fact is that using TBN at the correct time DOES reward good gameplay even though it doesn't reward it the way that you want.

For most other things, like using it on auto attacks, using it to mitigate raid wides, using it to save a party member, you're punished with a 500 potency lost for a tiny bit of mitigation (since the full shield might not be used in these instances, and a use could be small but could save someone's life who might be sitting at 2k HP). Which, in the grand scheme of healing mapping, won't be impactful enough for your healers in terms of their damage gained to make up for the damage lost.

If you are using TBN on autos/raid wides then you deserve to be punished for doing so. You have Rampart for autos and you have Dark Missionary for Raid Wides. TBN isn't meant to be used for those scenarios all willy nilly unless you're sure that it'll pop, like if your group took Frost rune for extra DPS and you TBN the MT for the following unavoidable AOE. Using TBN to save someone not only saved your Healer a GCD/MP to rez the person but also saved that person's GCDs from being wasted on rezing and getting into the fight. How is the sacrifice of your DPS not worth the gain of DPS from your healer and whomever you saved? It is just like using Clemency on another person to save them. It isn't optimal and they're sacrificing DPS but is this example really all that different? I can't say that I've ever seen someone tell the Pld that they shouldn't use Clemency in this way because, in the grand scheme of healing mapping, (it) won't be impactful enough for your healers in terms of their damage gained to make up for the damage lost.

[Danelo]

Do something similar without eating into DPS? Stares in Clemency

Nice try. Clemency is a self sustain and if you wanted to compare to the DRK kit it would be AD. A fair comparison to TBN would be Shelton. I don't have pld leveled but last I check Shelton was off the gauge (like all of their defensive utilities which have cost) and damage off mp, except clemency which I imagine is why you used it as a stand in for the false comparison. Besides, clemency has been a dps loss for a long while in most circumstances and is not used outside of solo content with rare exception. It's a side note that the pld isn't built around clemency the way DRK is built around TBN as a core feature so it's a poor comparison for that reason as well.

I would take the free ability over the defensive cd tied to your damage resource. The number of times hos won't save you but TBN will is tiny. In those cases you will more than likely invul if you have it up or move your cd map around. Generally though it's all going to do the same except one is free (ergo a dps gain bc it's not tied to your damage) and the other in not free and dps neutral at its best and a loss if the shield fails to pop.