The DPS is not the Healer

[Hawklaser]

If you pull it, you tank it. This has been a reality for many, many years.

While the you pull it, you tank it has been a saying for a while, its getting a bit twisted due to being shortened. As "if you pull it, expect to tank it" comes more from the earlier MMOs when it was sometimes better for the party as a whole to just let whomever accidentally or intentionally pulled an extra mob or mobs to die with no assistance in order to prevent a party wipe.

Pulling of mobs is the Puller's responsibility. Not the dps, not the tank, and not the healer. As the Puller has to consider everything that has already been mentioned in the thread, in addition to their normal job functions. Just in more modern MMOs Puller and Tank are considered one and the same to many.

You could really pull on any class and do fine depending on how you do it. Like if a dps, and think things are going slow but tank and healer are having issues with big pulls? If you know the dungeon so well try focusing down the biggest threats, and go get the next mobs when the minor trash is close to dead to keep things flowing. It will probably be of more help in getting newer players used to bigger pulls without forcing wipes and upset party members.

[Chalbee]

some stuff

No, it's not asking too much, provided you actually ASK, but it sounds more like you are TELLING the other three people in your party that it's your way or the highway.

How sad that you have no qualms about treating other players like your personal playthings, but you can't handle a wee bit of name calling. Another tank who expects the rest of us to worship the ground you walk on. How tired.

[SturmChurro]

No, it's not asking too much, provided you actually ASK, but it sounds more like you are TELLING the other three people in your party that it's your way or the highway.

How sad that you have no qualms about treating other players like your personal playthings, but you can't handle a wee bit of name calling. Another tank who expects the rest of us to worship the ground you walk on. How tired.

Yeah, because not single targeting in large pulls is asking for too much. Give me a break. You have it backwards, THOSE players should have consideration for the rest of the group and utilize their skillset, and use their aoe combos. Classes got a lot of aoe added with this expansion, and there is absolutely no excuse for them to not be using it. Not to mention the removal of TP. Not using aoe during a large pull makes it more difficult for the healer, and the tank.

[Hash_Browns]

No, it's not asking too much, provided you actually ASK, but it sounds more like you are TELLING the other three people in your party that it's your way or the highway.

How sad that you have no qualms about treating other players like your personal playthings, but you can't handle a wee bit of name calling. Another tank who expects the rest of us to worship the ground you walk on. How tired.

I don't think expecting players to use skills is a lot, or that people should have to bend over backwards & ask them to actually put in any effort.

[Chalbee]

Snip

You misunderstand. I don't disagree with your underlying premise; I prefer the tanks to pull big because it's also a more efficient use of my cards. However, I highly disagree with your approach, and prefer that the tank is kind or at the very least polite about it. Common courtesy and all that. If a tank begins the dungeon by dictating to me or the DPS how the dungeon is going to go (e.g. "I don't pull small, you will adapt to me") I am highly disinclined to cooperate with them, and will probably initiate a vote kick at the earliest opportunity.

[Chalbee]

bend over backwards

And I don't consider "/p Big pulls okay?" to be 'bending over backwards'

A little perspective, perhaps?

[SturmChurro]

You misunderstand. I don't disagree with your underlying premise; I prefer the tanks to pull big because it's also a more efficient use of my cards. However, I highly disagree with your approach, and prefer that the tank is kind or at the very least polite about it. Common courtesy and all that. If a tank begins the dungeon by dictating to me or the DPS how the dungeon is going to go (e.g. "I don't pull small, you will adapt to me") I am highly disinclined to cooperate with them, and will probably initiate a vote kick at the earliest opportunity.

If I am tanking I shouldn't have to ask the DPS to use their aoe combos. That's the thing. They should just use them. That is the purpose behind the skill combos. If they aren't using them they are at fault for potential wipes.

To be fair it depends on my mood if I will actually be rude, it usually starts when they ask me to pull smaller or start blaming me on the wipes.

[Hash_Browns]

And I don't consider "/p Big pulls okay?" to be 'bending over backwards'

A little perspective, perhaps?

Big Pulls = standard in anything >50.
It's not like the tank is coming in and calling everyone filth before they pull. Healers should DPS, DPS should AoE, Tanks should pull enough that the party should have to AoE. The only exception to this would be low level content, & new content that needs to be adjusted too.

Tanks shouldn't have to ask to start big. It should be expected.

I love that you preach being kind to other players as well, but offer nothing but insulting remarks here.

[Sylve]

I recently found out.. in the 3 and a half hours of extreme Titania runs I was doing with a party finder group... We failed to kill it at enrage about 4 times at .2%/.1%. I recently found out that one of the healers, apparently, literally did NOTHING in terms of DPS, and I mean NOTHING. If that healer would have actually done a tiny bit of dps we wouldn't have wasted 2 extra hours.

While its true that if your non DPSing Healer had thrown some stuff at the boss, you'd have cleared … Its also true that YoshiP can be quoted informing us that Boss HP and Enrages are tuned under the assumption of 0 Healer DPS.

So yeah … The Healer doing some dps might have gotten you a clear, But it also means your DPS and Tanks weren't pulling their weight to begin with. Undergeared or otherwise.

Tanks shouldn't have to ask to start big. It should be expected.

Speaking as someone who mains Healer and Tanks for fun in my off time, a simple 'Big pulls ok?" does 2 things.
It alerts the Healer that your intent is to pull more than one pack. Secondly, it informs the Healer that you are actually capable of doing so intelligently.

"Hello, big pulls ok?" is my standard greeting anytime I step into a dungeon as a Tank.
I've never met a Healer who told me no, But I have been thanked for saying it on a great many occasions.

Not every tank will mass pull. Not every tank initiates a mass pull in the same way.
Met more than i'd like of the variety that pull, stop/AoE for a bit, then sprint off into the distance, usually after Asylum/ES/SS is down because they stopped long enough I thought they were done and because they never bothered informing me of their intent.
Others will sprint right past everything without even a courtesy tag on the way.

[Chalbee]

Tanks shouldn't have to ask to start big. It should be expected.

I just can't agree with you there, I really don't think it's that big of an imposition on the tank to check in at the beginning of the dungeon.

I love that you preach being kind to other players as well, but offer nothing but insulting remarks here.

1. I'm not preaching anything. I'm stating my personal stance on the matter as we all are.

2. Entitled Swine is an insult, I'll own that, but I don't consider anything else I said to be insulting. I've said what I consider to be bad behavior, do you consider criticism of behaviors to be insulting?


Anyway, You (and SturmChurro) and I clearly don't see eye-to-eye on this issue, which is fine. May your clears be easy, and your loot rolls high.