The state of Monk in Shadowbringers (long)

[Sora_Oathkeeper]

fflogs isn't a good measurement of general population, since the majority of users are high end raiders focused on performance in high end content. Regardless of entertainment value, if mnk had consistently higher dps, with similar difficulty to pull it off, it would have a lot of fflog users.

Yeah I know fflogs isn't a great metric, however it's the only widely available resource in gauging job usage across current end game trials - which I'd argue is what jobs should be balanced and designed around, where rotations actually matter as well as DPS. While MNK's dps is high it just feels 'meh' to play unfortunately. In my opinion anyway, I'd like to see some change in the Monk core rotation, which is why I think the TK rotation was generally well received albeit not intentional. Many have wanted to use TK more often since it's inception. I really hope something can change with Monk in the coming patches, because i'm sure more people will start leaving it behind once they level other jobs that feel more rewarding to play.

[silverdragontyr]

I have actively tried to use TK just for some variation even if it hurts my DPS and it just doesn't work. Been using SSS any time I move away or back towards from a boss to maintain GL and again variation.

TK however, there is no use short of perfect timing right before a boss moves away for a long period or perfect timing before they die. Do it too early, you lose DPS from stack loss. Too late and you lose DPS as extra potency is pointless. Using PB, it's more damage and generally better maintenance to just use PB for DK/BS damage.

[silverdragontyr]

People need to stop wishing for TK combo back, at least how it was. They have clearly stated they didn't like it, it wasn't intended and this change reflects that. If you want high burst damage go Sam. We should focus more on how to make Mnk enjoyable and less punishing. A couple of oGCDs is one good idea. Incorporating Chakra a bit more is another good.

What don't people like about Mnk?

1 • Greased Lightning is hard to maintain, equates to most of our damage and is hard to generate back up. Ways added to maintain it are only at the very last levels currently.
Possible solutions - Lower Anatman level, Add a skill that instantly generates GL to max current level, allow SSS to extend GL timer by 10 seconds without a cap.

2 • Mnk feels too slow for a class based around speed due to RoF and new gear stat spread.
Possible Solutions - Remove slowdown from RoF, add an ability that further reduces GCD, Allow GF4 on all fists and give each fists a unique combat ability ex (FoF dmg, FoW GCD speed, FoE Crit rate)

3 • Mnk feels boring and is a relatively simple combo rotation now.
Possible Solutions - Add more oGCD abilities. Add more combo potentials with unique effects based on combo order/stance, add more varied ways to fight like different Chakra abilities.

4 • Tornado Kick as it stands is a wasted ability. It's damage does not offset losing your GL stacks.
Possible solutions - Increase it's potency and/or make more ways to combo it like 100% Crit buff on next hit. Remove eating GL and make oGCD ability. Make it a Disengage tool.


There is what, 5 threads now on Mnk in this forum? It's clear there are issues and a lot of the complaints seem to bolster the sam problems.

Mnk feels slow. There is no longer enough varied moves to keep gameplay interesting for extended periods. GL is core to our damage and hard to maintain, resulting in harsh punishments.

[Guulu]

my personal 5.0 MNK wish list:
1.delete monk

[PangTong]

A couple of other things I wanted to bring up that I didn't mention in my initial post:

- Missing the Bootshine positional is ridiculously punishing. With Bootshine's increased potency from Leaden Fist and the increased chance to proc chakras from Deep Meditation II, missing the Bootshine positional is like losing out on an entire GCD worth of damage. If the boss turns at the last second or if you can't be in the right position due to mechanics and you don't have a True North charge ready to use, you're losing out on tons and tons of damage by missing Bootshine. The only positional that's more punishing to miss is Trick Attack, but while a Ninja only uses TA every 60 seconds, Monks use Bootshine 5 times a minute.

- The 120 second cooldown on Perfect Balance makes playing Monk in dungeons absolute hell because you'll lose Greased Lightning between almost every pull unless the tank is doing big pulls and sprinting to every boss, even then there's area transitions where you'll lose it anyway. With no way to rebuild Greased Lightning quickly you're stuck building all the way up from scratch which is like 15-20 seconds where you're doing massively reduced damage. Imagine if another job like Dragoon or something had a 20% damage down debuff for the first 15 seconds of every other dungeon pull. It sounds terrible because it is but that's the daily reality of Monk.

- Six-Sided Star feels terrible to use. Even though it does have its uses, it's still 4-ish seconds where you can't do anything, not even form shift or charge chakras. Being on the GCD also makes it pretty awkward and difficult to use reactively, you kind of already have to know exactly when you need to use it during a fight, otherwise you'll miss your chance. Overall it just feels like something Monk didn't need.

[Infernocommander]

The only thing I disagree with you on is Riddle of Earth. RoE is a fantastic way to elongate GL3/4 in instances where you don't have anatman, one such example being the final trial of ShB. Without RoE would lose your stacks moving from one phase to the next. Other than that though, you right.

[silverdragontyr]

The problem is RoE relies on being it. If you're low on stacks and nothing's up, it encourages you to be hit. That's not a good ability design for a class not supposed to take hits. It's nice, but not really anything but an add on. That's a big problem with Mnk right now. Half our abilities are "It's nice, but...."

• Riddle of Earth - "It's nice, but you need to take damage."

• Tornado Kick - "It's nice, but you need to trade all stacks for a not great potency."

• Six-Sided Star - "It's nice, but really doesn't have use mid combat"

• Anatman - "It's nice, but can only really be used on bosses with long transitions where you don't have to move" (Not counting it's current exploiting server tic.

• Arm of the Destroyer - "What?"

[Kolsykol]

I am convinced at this point that someone on the team asked their ten year old son/ daughter to take care of Monk because that's how it feels.
Nothing makes sense, meanwhile everyone else got new awesome toys and play nicely :/.

[Xaert]

I have no faith in the developers to fix Monk, but I wholeheartedly believe that they'll "fix" AST and SCH right after or even before Raids hit. We're going to be put on the backburner another expansion, but in a worse state than before. The only thing they'll change is how Anatman works and how it'll force you to wait 3-4 seconds to get that stack given/refreshed because they don't like how any class can abuse their toolset.

Call me out on "feeding the negativity," cause that's exactly what I'm doing but I'm not going to be putting up with how Monk is currently. If the developers don't acknowledge how the community feels about it (and SCH and AST, not to diminish how they feel about it) or acknowledges it and refuses to fix it (kinda like how they just did going from Stormblood to Shadowbringers), I'll be dropping my sub. I just don't enjoy another class as much as I like playing Monk. It's not like we're playing a subscription-based game with one of the largest playerbases in current MMOs or playing a game from a AAA developer with the capability to bring in high quality employees.

...Oh wait...